ok @Kinarymo i cannot express my joy. i know i already did express my joy but every time i look at that image it comes back. that fact that you found a piece of your art (i'm assuming you didn't make it just for me, an online critiquer? but if you did OHHHHH MYYYY–) you thought i would enjoy makes me feel so special and I really can never make that up to you!! :DD
@Kinarymo - here we go!! Top down on Hanami…
((now i KNOW i've already had a stroke over your art tonight but oh boy i'm DOING IT AGAIN bc he has WINGS))
Nature is very solid, and since he's a supporting/side character, I'm not going to go crazy on little things since they're slightly less relevant. There's one thing I do need to poke at though: flaws. I don't think you need to write in any replacement deep, impactful flaws unless they're going to have a bearing on how Hanami interacts with others and how those others then act on the interactions (does that make sense?) But I DO think the flaw you currently have doesn't make a lot of sense. This is a classy man with outdated slang and Dad Friend Energy. I could understand how he comes off as aloof and a little strange, but cold and detached? It kind of strikes me as saying someone who always talks on the phone rather than in person has NO ability to interact socially. Like… they do! he does!
Didn't expect to get into my feelings from a Notebook backstory but knowing that Hanami got to see his friend again as an elf who's pals with his great^x grandson really GOT ME
Okay, as usual, there aren't an problems with backstory. However, I do have one question: how did Hanami keep himself grounded???? He came from the SKY, grew up loved by everyone, defeated the Devourer in a massive display of power, and was immediately crowned king. Then he made a magic power source for the island. I don't think he's too OP. He's just the right amount of OP. BUT given that life was so easy for him and everyone around him loved him so much, how did he keep his ego in check?? Of course he could've mellowed out as he grew, but I'm really shocked he didn't have some kind of wild or destructive phase as a young adult.
And that is all I can offer you!! I know, I know, it's not too much. But Hanami is a double whammy of a side character who doesn't need extensive development AND a character who's well-developed!! (what????) As with all of your characters, he really is outstanding, and I hope that my limited notes are helpful to you!! :DD
All right, @Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull, here we go!! A first for me: advice on writing a character!!! I'll do my best here! If it's not quite what you're looking for, I'm so sorry!! Again, first time, so I hope I can at least give you a place to jump off of.
Okay, so when I think of a side character with a reputation that precedes them, there are a few VERY clear paths to go for, and each has its own little facets.
First up is a character whose reputation is more or less true and COMPLETELY earned. A character like this would probably have a little bit of an ego issue?? They might be kind and grounded, or wild and impulsive, whatever. But they'll have an ego that takes over in times of trouble, or in negotiations, etc.–basically whatever field their earned reputation comes from. Maybe that's a good thing! But maybe sometimes it goes wrong.
Next is a character whose reputation is more or less based on falsehoods… but they've done good stuff with it. After getting wrongfully credited with some awesome feat, this person used their new platform to spread goodness. Remember: this character is a good person, but they're still basically living a lie. Maybe now they have the ability to complete whatever thing they're accredited with, but they sure didn't back then!! This is great for a flawed character, because they're just a moral mess.
And then there is obviously the character who is just the WORST. Reputation NOT deserved. Platform used to GET MONEY and its substitutes (property, good food, (not-so)significant others, etc). THIS CHARACTER IS MEAN. They would be a bad mentor character. Well, they could be a good mentor if your MC is dazzled by their success, wealth, etc., and then it all comes crashing down in one HELL of a realization battle.
Finally, we have the character who has an ongoing reputation. They didn't just do one big thing; they've done a lot of things. Whether those are heroic things (like defeating dragons or whatever) or bad things (like spearheading a real estate company that gentrifies low-income neighborhoods) is up to you. And of course, this character could either be grounded as hell or egomaniacal as hecc. In-between, you ask? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
So I guess the main point is this: not a lot of character traits are defined by a character based in reputation. More of it depends on the actual action (single event or cyclical) its impact (overall good or overall bad or kind grey) and how they react (go to philanthropy or head to Ego Street). And after that, they're just characters!! They can be whoever you want them to be!! Go crazy!! You're SO GOOD AT THIS (believe me, I know!!!) But in any case, I hope that my scratchy attempt at advice is helpful to you!! :DDD
@CinnamonRoll
Hi! Could you critique one of my characters? Here's the link: Invalid Character. There's a few things that I'm not sure about and I want to get them fixed before I start writing him into my story. I don't exactly know how this whole process works, since this is my first time delving into the discussions.
Thanks!
eeeeeee tysm!!!! that was super helpful!!!!
I actually have a different character who's the good but life of lies one he's another whole can of worms and I love him
The guy I'm trying to write I'm a little extra nervous about, because I need him to be likable by the people playing my game, and I'm worried they…won't xD
"Finally, we have the character who has an ongoing reputation. They didn't just do one big thing; they've done a lot of things. Whether those are heroic things (like defeating dragons or whatever) or bad things (like spearheading a real estate company that gentrifies low-income neighborhoods) is up to you. And of course, this character could either be grounded as hell or egomaniacal as hecc. In-between, you ask? ABSOLUTELY NOT."
^^^^^ He's absolutely that. And he is grounded as all get out, he's the herald rock of everyone who befriends him, he deserves and has earned every bit of his rep.
High key my main concern is that because I love him so much, I'm gonna overdo him xD And then my players won't like him as much xDD
Thanks again, I really appreciate it!!!! This was really helpful <3
@CinnamonRoll Well, i was already working on her, but seeing as you liked her so much, i thought u might like to see her again in a new light ^^
(ayy, u know what, i might draw Hanami again one day :0 )
I really did not know what flaws to give him, cuz like, i wasnt too sure about his place in the plot at that time ^^'
hihi, tear fuel for emotional backstory :))
As for his backstory, i get your point there, it does make sense. I didnt really find something turmoily for his backstory, mainly because i never looked for one, cuz hes a morphidae and his brain just doesnt work like that?? :"D guess he was more busy trying to get around like a normal person? cuz he literally dropped from the sky and he aint basically a normal person??? :"))) If u hav any suggestions, i'll gladly listen :"»
ty for takin a look at him yvy
What's up folks!!! Time for tonight's round-up!!
Critiques tonight go out to @tiredandconfused and @theweirdfangirl (welcome to the thread)!!
@Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull - I'm really glad you liked it!!!! I guess I wouldn't worry about overdoing him, since I'm sure your players will like him so long as he's nice and has some human quirks. :DD
@Kinarymo - seriously, thank you for sharing your art!!! Honestly, I think a good way to play it is examining how he acts right after he's crowned. A small shortcoming that you can easily fix is that he doesn't listen to his advisors. As soon as this leads to a big problem, he could easily fix his ways and start listening.
Alrighty, @tiredandconfused's turn!! Top down on Halisia…
Nature is overall very smooth, and I like the idea of a character who's compassionate but doesn't quite know how to show it. However, her compassion also causes the one main flaw I can find on this sheet. It's a conflict between justice and compassion. I have nothing wrong with her being a compassionate character who cares for justice, but it shouldn't have this big of an impact on her worldview. E.g., she wouldn't see the world as black and white. She may care deeply about justice, but someone with incredible compassion would DEFINITELY have a grey area where they at least STRUGGLE with dealing out justice.
Same issue comes with 'anyone who competes with her is a threat–' that's not really in-tune with compassion. if this person is a commoner, she would see them as in need of her guidance (which is a REALLY cool take on compassion) but if they're of divine blood, why wouldn't she understand and respect them?
History is also really solid???? I'm starting to think this is going to be a REALLY short critique. Which is a credit to your skill, but I'm still sorry I couldn't find much more! Anyway, let's talk about this aggression. I saw less of it in nature, so I was surprised it was such a big part of her personality. My main question is this: why didn't it come out sooner around her mentor? I understand that she had to keep up appearances, and that eventually the two became close, but before that, Halisia spent months or years vying for the position of Prophet Heir. I'm really shocked that she didn't lash out at Taysali, or at Kiram in front of her. At the very least, I'd expect someone to have told Taysali about her anger problem, since apparently it's super prevalent. That bit kind of confused me, but other than that, this is wildly solid!
And like I said, that's all I've got. I'm sorry that I can't offer you more, but Halisia is remarkably well-developed already!! There's barely anything I think you need to fix, and in that, I hope my notes can help you a little bit!! :DD
If you have time, of course! Thanks for taking the time to do this for everybody!
Okay, @theweirdfangirl, your turn!! Top down on Edward…
Okay, I lied! Not top down. I skimmed through your character sheet, and I feel the need to let you know right away that there isn't a TON I can work with here. Given that Edward's a mentor, not an MC or even main support, he doesn't NEED insane levels of development. So it's probably fine that a lot of this is unclear! But as a critic, I just can't give you a ton. I'll do my best and also let you know what I think the most important areas to flesh out are, and we'll see how this goes!!
First up, let's peek at motivations! Obviously the desire to help those close to him is a perfectly fine motive, but the question here is how he MAKES FRIENDS. He's secretive, bad at communication, and seems a little aloof. I need to know more about Edward's soft side to know how he gains a circle of people close to him that he can look out for.
Prejudices is blank, and I will encourage you to fill this one out!! All characters have prejudices, whether they realize it or not. If they see them, they can work against their prejudice and grow out of an old mentality. But if they don't see it, that can lead to a whole slew of awkward or even nasty interactions.
Religion and politics!! Okay, these are my favorite fields to rant about because I think they're SO important and no one else does, really. For religion, even if your character has no religion like Edward, it's still helpful to make it clear if they're atheist or agnostic (if you don't know the difference, it's super fun to read about)! This is a vehicle to paint a character's worldview as more nihilistic or hopeful. And as for politics, it's always a nice baseline to place your characters on a scale of liberal-to-conservative. This works even for characters who aren't politically active, and it works as a vehicle to tell readers how open your character is to change!
And then I feel like 'job' is a REALLY important field for Edward. I mean, he's a mentor. Is he working at, like, a biotech company? Is he a disgraced sociologist who runs models from his basement now? Job usually isn't a major deal, but in Edward's case, it is.
Okay, well, there's no backstory here. I understand that this is a side character at best, and he doesn't need every moment of his life categorized like an MC does. HOWEVER, there are a couple things that need explaining!! In particular, flaws, prejudices, and motivations need basis in backstory. Everything does, really, but the negatives are most important. And remember that nothing happens in a vacuum!! So if our man Edward has a job at a tech company, how did he get it? Where did he get his PhD? Was there a dark period in his life? Why does he decide to mentor your MCs? Now, I'm not going to force you to put this all on Notebook, but make sure to be thinking about it at least!!
Aaaand that is all!! I'm terribly sorry I couldn't give you many CRITIQUES critiques, but I still really hope that my suggestions are helpful to you in some way!! :DDD
Oh hello @Ash-has-a-One-Piece-problem !!!! I remember Azami!! I just finished up my two critiques of the night, which means it's time to watch Critical Role to lull me to a lovely sleep. But I'll get to her first thing tomorrow night!!
(and thank you!! I really enjoy doing this, so it's never a chore for me! :DD)
@CinnamonRoll Ahh thank you!! I think Halisia tries to be as compassionate as she can, but often times her sense of justice, which is sometimes misguided, can overpower that. She only extends her kindness to those she thinks are in the right and need help, and is instantly distrusting of those she thinks are bad. You make a good point with the prejudices, I'll have to change that. Taysali would have been pretty aware of Halisia's aggressiveness but didn't care about it, probably because she was so put off by Kiram's snobbishness. You made some good points and I think they'll help me flesh Halisia out some more! (also just saw you mention Critical Role and :000 I'm so excited to stumble across another Critter!!!)
@CinnamonRoll
Thank you so much! This really helped me think about Edward's character and also my other characters. Edward is a character I'm making for a crossover story with one of my friends, and this has really made me think about how he interacts with other people. I'll be sure to fix up this stuff when I can, and apply it to my other characters as well.
Thanks again,
TheWeirdFangirl
Hi folks!!! Time for tonight's round-up…
Tonight, just one critique–a round 2 on @Ash-has-a-One-Piece-problem's Azami!
@tiredandconfused - I'm super glad you enjoyed!!! And I'm a very new CR fan and by NO means caught up. But I'm so excited to be watching live soon!!!
@theweirdfangirl - I'm happy you liked it!!! I hope this was a good first time on the forums! :DD
Okay, @Ash-has-a-One-Piece-problem, here we go!! Top down on Azami…
I have NO IDEA where Azami's previous critique is (we have 14 pages now?? 98 users are following this thread?? this is INSANE) so unfortunately I don't have access to y previous notes!! Despite that, I will of COURSE be giving Azami a full critique. It just might not build off the first one super well–this is a long way of saying, 'sorry if I get redundant!'
Reading through nature, I'm a bit worried I'm going to sound like a broken record right off the bat. I get how she could keep her emotions in check to listen to her captain's orders, but in the heat of battle, HOW do those not come out? It doesn't quite make sense yet that such an emotional, reckless, passionate character would be able to shut it all off when fighting. And at what point will she defy her captain? Again, for such a passionate character, there's almost definitely a line for her.
Other than that, everything looks good here! There is a notable hole, though: prejudices. I yell at everyone about this, sorry! Literally every character has prejudices. This doesn't mean every character is racist, hates poor people, hates women, or what have you. But it COULD mean that they grew up in all-white neighborhoods, went to majority-white religious schools, surrounded themselves with white friends and relatives because it felt natural… and realized that they had ingrained hints of racism when they hit college. And that's okay as long as the character recognizes their prejudice AND actively works against it! Prejudices can be big or small, seen or unseen. I'd really encourage you to add one or two to Azami, since they're natural and important to point out!
Politics is great!!!!! I can't remember if I gave you the old religion and politics rant? I give it to basically everyone, so I'll assume I did. I won't reprise the whole thing. I'm guessing Azami doesn't follow any organized religion, and if I'm right, it would be really helpful to make the distinction of atheist or agnostic!! It's a very little thing, but it helps tell readers if she's more nihilistic or hopeful.
Backstory is awesome!!! I only have a couple notes. One: how is she still so nice and cheerful? She loves cuddles and making friends (LOVE IT), but she was also locked away for… an indeterminate amount of time. How did she retain her good spirits through that dark time? And two: I think that time is good prejudice fuel!! Consider who locked her away (Could she like… control fire? (I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ONE PIECE) Did she hate magic users?) and build some prejudices from there!
And that's all I have for you!! I hope this was a worthwhile Round 2 for you!! I certainly enjoyed writing it. And of course, I hope my notes are helpful to you!! :DD
( @tiredandconfused - I just learned that Critters is like the name of fans!! i think??? So yes!! I am now one! :DDD )
( @CinnamonRoll Yeah, Critters are the fans! I'm glad you're liking the show, it's cool to meet other fans!!)
um qvq
hewwo
i found another kid
Tonight's round-up!!! (Kind of ??? There's only one thing on here!)
@Kinarymo - outstanding!! I'll write the critique right now! :D
All right, let's do this!! Top down on Alphonse…
First note is a small one. His listed prejudice is really just self-consciousness, which is also a listed flaw. Self-doubt is definitely something negative that sticks with you, but I don't think I'd consider it enough to be an actual prejudice.
(All these notes are going to be small because this is a very well-done page!) Another little thing: I feel like I'm only getting half of Alphonse's personality here. I know how he acts with friends (helpful, more confident, but slightly afraid that their bond is decaying), but not really how he acts around people he dislikes (I know he's easily intimidated, but what else?) Given the traits I can see, I can gather that he would be intimidated, stiff, and sobbing. And frankly, that seems unrealistic all the time. A mentor figure lashing out? Appropriate response!! But like… how does he respond to criticism on his art? Is it the same? How does he respond to bullying? Is it still scared stiff, or is it running, or did he fail to fight once and get a little jaded?
And I know a lot of what I'm picking at CAN be explained by severe anxiety and social anxiety. I promise that I understand that!! And of course it's okay to write a soft character! But like–does he mutter insults after people walk away? Draw curse words to float after them? To really bring Alphonse into his glory, I think you need little, tiny things that establish a dash of boldness in him, so that he's not just a doormat to everyone who would intimidate him.
THAT WAS A BIG NOTE OOF
(but like he whistles when he's guilty!! this kiddo has a little bit of a bold streak!!)
I'm not going to screech incessantly about politics, as he is literally 12. When I was 12, I thought that gays were going to hell. Now, I date women. So you know. (But it COULD be kind of neat to give him backwards values and watch them change as the story continues!! Of course this only works if it's a long-running thing).
Reading through this history, it could be good to write in a prejudice against bullies/abusers of power!!! I love this one, since a lot of the time, kids who bully others have been bullied or have tough times at home. It's like the cycle of abuse, just watered down in some cases. There's empathy to have for those people, but characters who have been bullied, like Alphonse, might have a hard time accessing that.
LOVE the backstory!!! (unconditional prejudice against war could also work!!!) I do have one question, and I think it's more plot-related, so you can ignore it if you'd like. If Alphonse is 12, how exactly is going to be helpful in a grand escape? I understand that he's powerful, but he also crumbles when intimidated, and I'm PRETTY sure there will be some kind of guards in this scenario.
And that is all I have!!! I know it's not a ton, and the meatiest bit is just semi-coherent rambling. But Alphonse is a really well-developed character already, and I promise you I did my best!! Per the usual, I hope that my notes are helpful to you!!! :DDDD
Ayy, ty ^^ i'm still working on Alphonse cuz hes one of the MCs and i just suck at placing them in the new plot for some reason??? like, i cant even decide why he has this power and how far can it go @-@
Tysm tho :D the anxiety notes really do help ^^ i'll try to work on him
Meanwhile, i dug up another character :')
Hi! How've you been? It's been a minute since I've given you a character, but when you get the chance could you look over Jason for me? It took a while to really figure out what direction I wanted to take him in and an outside perspective on how he's turning out would be great! Invalid Character
Hi guys!! I'm so sorry!!! Last night was my first non-scheduled disappearance. I'm terribly sorry about that, but I was having some of the worst cramps of my life and didn't get out of bed all day. But I feel MUCH better today, never fear!! And I haven't abandoned this lovely thread!
Tonight I'll be critiquing @Kinarymo and @tiredandconfused!!!
(And @Kinarymo - I'm happy you liked the last critique!!! If you want a more in-depth anxiety critique/breakdown, just let me know. I have mild anxiety, and it was MUCH worse when I was younger. So maybe I can offer perspective if you need or want it! :D)
Tomorrow, first slot goes to the darling @zims! I've been wonderful, with the exception of yesterday–thanks for asking! :D
(Also, look at us!! 15 pages!! Wow!!)
All right! Top down on @Kinarymo's Natory…
this man is a nerd with an extremely well-done personality and I love him SO MUCH. I'm very worried that this is going to be a sparse critique, since he's a side character (doesn't need tons of intricacy) AND a well-developed character (already has that intricacy!) So you know–fair warning!
One thing that confuses me is this idea that he's primarily moved by logic. In context, that feels wrong. I can understand that he VALUES logic, but everything about this man's private persona hints that he's a softie with deep emotional connections, especially with his children. I feel like he'd be more moved by emotion a lot of the time, especially when he knows someone well, knows a situation well, etc.
Also, quick question. I'm ASSUMING that "nothing really matters" under prejudices refers to that fact that he's a side character and his prejudices probably aren't relevant to the plot in any way. But does it mean that he thinks nothing really matters? That doesn't make any sense in character, so I'm assuming it's the first thing I said, but just making sure!
Backstory is very good (AND REALLY SAD AGAIN GOOD GOD MAN) but there is one major sticking point. Like I said earlier, the general impression of Natory is that he's softer on the inside. Cold public persona, and sure, he's blunt and doesn't care for disobedience, but he's generally a nice man and a good father, even if he doesn't show it around everyone. But the incidents described in his backstory led to a TOTAL personality change. Like you said, he became a cold person. Which makes sense, given his traumas. But in Nature, he's NOT a cold person. That's just the outside. So what happened there? Was it his second wife? His kids? Just… time?
And that is all I can offer you!! Like I said earlier, not too much, I'm afraid!!! But even though it's not a lot of notes, I hope that they help you!! :DD
All right, @tiredandconfused, here we go! Top down on Azana…
Right off the bat, I see a HUGE clash between her personality and her main flaw. As I read through her personality type, I just locked into my brain, "Okay, high charisma. Cult leader vibes." Which was IMMEDIATELY negated by her flaw of needless cruelty. A manipulator and a charmer like Azana just wouldn't be cruel and repellent to people. It undermines her manipulation. It undermines her careful use of charisma and charming to get people to her side. Her reputation has to be GLOWING for her to get support.
Another point of contradiction to the unnecessary cruelty - she refrains from manipulation if she thinks it's not needed. Azana clearly understands that sometimes doing bad things isn't NEEDED - so why would she be unnecessarily cruel?
(Reputation thing!! I TOTALLY get how her reputation would take a hit after the LITERAL TREASON, but she has to have a great reputation after that to proceed with manipulation. She has to be (please excuse my awkward but fitting example, and slight TW for rape) a white man accused of rape. Did and objectively TERRIBLE thing, but for some reason, people are still like, "Oh, can't be THAT bad! They were so nice! They gave someone flowers! Be lenient!" You know?? It's the best example I could think of in the moment, sorry! It sure isn't perfect, but you get the idea).
I… literally have no notes on her backstory. That is WELL DONE and I would pay money for the spin-off novel about Azana's backstory. Like????? I actually have nothing to say.
And that is all I have for you!! It's… actually just one critique in three different places. Which speaks to your skill as an artist here!!! Well done!!! But even though I couldn't give you a ton of notes, I hope that these are still helpful!! :DDD
@CinnamonRoll Thank you! You make a really strong point with the clashing of her personality and her flaw. I'll probably lessen the flaw so that her cruelty is more subtle. Her reputation is ruined in the eyes of supporters of the Maveryn family, who have no idea that she's still running Valarae's Order, so trying to manipulate them would be difficult and just expose herself. She has a better reputation among those who are critical of the Maveryns who often justify her treason, and so she uses them instead. However, even then many people are unaware of Azana manipulating them because she's in hiding, thinking that they're following someone else that Azana is actually just using as a puppet. Also I'm so glad you like the backstory!! It's probably the thing I worked the hardest on and my favorite part of Azana's profile.
Hello! I’m back! And I’ve brought my chaotic boi with me
His backstory is unfinished…… but I’m working on it!
Hi everyone!! Round-up time!!
First up, new thing! I was thinking about this today, and I've decided I'm only going to do pre-scheduled critiques. Like, if I don't mention you in round-up the night before, you're tomorrow night! I like this idea because it'll spread out the critiques a bit–some nights I'll only be doing one. Theoretically, I'll feel less overworked and have to take fewer breaks! So I'm going to start that up now, but if y'all really hate it, let me know!!! I am here to support you.
Tonight's critique is for @zims!
Per my new and improved system, @ella_grace, you'll be up tomorrow!! (Does that work okay?)
@tiredandconfused - Glad you liked it!!!! Thank you for taking it to heart, as always :DD And that backstory is SERIOUSLY wonderful. Excellent job!! :D