Hi lovely writers,
If anyone has the time and inclination, I would love some feedback on one of my characters, Tani. :) Here is her page. She spends a great deal of the storyline as a cat, which is why that portion of her character has a lot of detail as well.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated, and do let me know if I can return the favour!
Overall I really like Tani! She's really well rounded. The only thing I would say is to put in the motivations how her desire to be with family affects the story. Sorry for the small critique, but Tani is really good
Hope this helped! Happy Writing!
@barabara - Thank you! That would make a good addition to her backstory. :)
Additional feedback would still be appreciated, if anyone has time to look Tani over. :)
Hello there!
I read through Tani's page and she seems like quite a solid character! A few questions/comments/suggestions:
A++, would definitely read this
(I'm sorry this is such a mess of a critique)
Oh and also I love her character art! (I forgot to mention that earlier but yes, it's absolutely amazing)
@ninja_violinist - Hi! Thank you so much for taking a look at Tani and giving such detailed and friendly feedback. :) I got a rejection letter from a publisher today so my emotions are all over the shop but knowing you like Tani is like balm to the soul. <3
To be honest I've been kinda lowkey stalking the thread with you and @royaltea and I really should say something on there but I just really love y'alls enthusiasm (which I can't compete with, sadly. I'm such an introvert). Somehow in my brain you've become this famous person so when I saw your username in my notifications it was like @ninja_violinist posted on my thread? So. Anyway.
- From what I can tell, Tani (as the love interest of your main character) has several traits which directly contrast his (he is anti-magic, she is anti-banning magic, etc).
Yes, well spotted. :D I'm kind of intending this to be a series and they probably won't become an item until like… book 3 or 4 (maybe), but Ben is (hopefully) going to have a massive shift in perspective and some values in book 1. But you're right, it would definitely be helpful to work out how they interact with each other at different stages and how their personalities would come into conflict - because they will.
(Also… you checked out Ben's page as well? hugs)
- It seems like Tani has a distant admiration/casual acquaintanceship with Marisel while they were listed as best friends in the social tab.
You're right, that's my bad. Marisel has no idea Tani exists. When I started Tani's page I had her as Marisel's best friend but after fleshing out the backstory I realised things were going to work better if her true identity remained hidden from Marisel. She really does admire her, though. Lord Rilvan is totally fine with Marisel interacting with his innocuous magic users (like those with plant and weather magic) (in fact, he encourages her to develop her own talents because why not and he probably couldn't stop her anyway) but he keeps his spies and his fire users as secret as he can.
- These questions are just meant to stimulate thought, you don't have to answer all (or any) of them if they're stupid or redundant
- Ultimately it's up to you how far you want to develop a supporting character
Thank you! I'm definitely going to consider those aspects because even though Tani is a supporting character now, I intend for her to be the main character in book 3 (or 4) and the more developed she is now, the easier her story will flow then. (At least I hope so.)
A++, would definitely read this
<3 <3 (That makes me glad. Just… my heart is kinda glowing and I have no words.) Let me know if you want to know anything more - I have way too much of this still in my head.
Oh and also I love her character art! (I forgot to mention that earlier but yes, it's absolutely amazing)
Thank you, but I can't take the credit! I made both her human and cat art using online doll-makers, because I find it a lot quicker to get the general look of a character down that way. My own art is a lot less amazing (like so) and I probably couldn't draw a cat to save my life.
Sorry this reply is so long and emotional. ^^; I will probably be in better shape tomorrow.
I got a rejection letter from a publisher today
Can I just say… fools
To be honest I've been kinda lowkey stalking the thread with you and @royaltea and I really should say something on there but I just really love y'alls enthusiasm (which I can't compete with, sadly. I'm such an introvert). Somehow in my brain you've become this famous person so when I saw your username in my notifications it was like @ninja_violinist posted on my thread? So. Anyway.
You know that awkward moment when you're at your laptop and just stupidly grinning to yourself and then someone comes into the room? Well I wanted to avoid that so I spent the past few minutes smiling into my pillow
Because this is so weird
But I've been lowkey stalking your critique thread(s) and every time I see your name on a thread I'm like… well it's @Riorlyne so it's gotta be good
My brain has turned you into like… the master of critiquing (so I was super nervous to say something about your character because my "critiques" are usually just me being all over the place and enthusiastic while you're so polite and helpful and structured and stuff)
And this is going to sound even weirder
But yesterday in the thread with @royaltea I mentioned that I had been stalking other critiquing threads and would be happy to try and ask someone with actual (I want to say critiquing but I've used that word like 800 times already so you know what I mean) skills to have a look at her work
So it turns out that it was you
I can't explain it very well at all but basically
Ben is (hopefully) going to have a massive shift in perspective and some values in book 1.
Thank goodness. I was introduced to Tani first so I'm sort of already on her side
(Also… you checked out Ben's page as well? hugs)
Ben is a cupcake I love him
I was this close to trying to click every single link I could find on your page to read about more of your world but then I had to go do laundry
I'm definitely going to consider those aspects because even though Tani is a supporting character now, I intend for her to be the main character in book 3 (or 4)
Yesssssss
I love Tani
I don't know her very well but I love her
Let me know if you want to know anything more - I have way too much of this still in my head.
TELL ME EVERYTHING (that you are willing to type out) (it's fine if you don't want to I realise that I'm way overenthusiastic about everything writing-related)
(you mentioned earlier that you're an introvert - I swear that I'm an introvert in real life, I can't say hello to people or make eye contact or anything. And usually I'm not this extra online. I blame this site. It's full of stuff that I'm passionate about and that brings out the crazy in me)
I also love your art! (here we go again with the enthusiasm) It's so expressive and the colors work so well and your style is so pretty
(I'm so sorry for the nonexistent grammar/punctuation in this response, by the way)
Thanks again for letting me see your work and have a wonderful day!
Can I just say… fools
XD That made me laugh. He did have some constructive feedback though, like to get my work professionally edited (not sure how much it costs to get all 700 words of a picture book text professionally edited) and to develop an author brand and outline the return on investment a publisher is going to get… but like… I have no idea how to market these things. And I have seen children’s picture books with about as much thought put into the words as a certain president puts into his tweets so… yeah.
But I've been lowkey stalking your critique thread(s) and every time I see your name on a thread I'm like… well it's @Riorlyne so it's gotta be good. My brain has turned you into like… the master of critiquing
Eeeee really? * does that weird smiling thing only not into a pillow but openly because there is no-one else in this building but me *
But yesterday in the thread with @royaltea I mentioned that I had been stalking other critiquing threads and would be happy to try and ask someone with actual (I want to say critiquing but I've used that word like 800 times already so you know what I mean) skills to have a look at her work
So it turns out that it was you
I SAW THAT POST. O_O (Because yes, I have been stalking that thread) and I wondered, does ninja mean me? I've been offering a bit of feedback lately but I thought you couldn't possibly mean me and that my brain was being silly but you were. I want to say 'It's a small world' but as we're both on a site with probably < 100 active users maybe it's not as much of a cool coincidence as it seems? I'll say it anyway: This is a cool coincidence :D
Ben is a cupcake I love him
I was this close to trying to click every single link I could find on your page to read about more of your world but then I had to go do laundry
I love him too! Poor guy has a lot of growing to do, though. And go right ahead! I think there are only four public pages though at the moment, a lot of it is hidden to just me. I'd say probably the only thing you haven't seen that's public is Prince Ghilandar's page.
TELL ME EVERYTHING (that you are willing to type out) (it's fine if you don't want to I realise that I'm way overenthusiastic about everything writing-related)
Are you kidding? Nothing makes me happier than people who are enthusiastic about my writing. I could probably write about my writing for multiple dozens of pages; I'm just afraid that no one will care about it half as much as me. I will tell you something in another post so it's better organised and easier to follow. I'm not 100% sure what I will tell you, but it will be told.
(you mentioned earlier that you're an introvert - I swear that I'm an introvert in real life, I can't say hello to people or make eye contact or anything. And usually I'm not this extra online. I blame this site. It's full of stuff that I'm passionate about and that brings out the crazy in me)
I think that I'm a social chameleon. I tend to start out very proper and reserved but then I adapt to the mood around me so that I don't stick out like a sore thumb. Reading your enthusiastic responses actually makes me feel more excited about my work (if that even makes sense?) and encourages me to poke my head out of this very proper and reserved shell. (Please ignore the fact that chameleons don't have shells and I mixed up my animal comparisons there.)
Thanks again for letting me see your work and have a wonderful day!
You're welcome, but really, thank you. :P
So I think the something I will tell you will be about a character named Gelenni, because really she was the one who started the idea for this book (or series) and even though she's not a primary character, she does have a lot of influence on those folks. Her biggest role in the story is that she's Ben's adoptive mum.
Gelenni is a Soldorian woman from the northwest region of Gàldorë who was particularly skilled at plant magic when she was young. She had a lot of ambition and eventually found a place on the council of mages that were part of the government at the time, and, following in her footsteps, her younger brother Jorès found a place there too. (Side note - her younger brother has the same Thread of magic as Ben.) At that time a lot of mages that made it into the council were able to do so because they were from well-off families (and thus could afford to be apprenticed to a more knowledgeable mage) or they had good connections, but Gelenni's father was just a humble shoemaker.
So Gelenni worked really hard to get where she got, and she didn't at all like the tendrils of corruption that she could see creeping into the council. Around this time a young user of sound magic (an apprentice of someone on the council) fell head over heels for her but Gelenni told him no, she had more important things to do than get married right at that moment.
What frustrated her the most was that she wanted to use her knowledge and skill to train others and collaborate with the weather mages so that the country's flora would prosper and people would have plenty to eat and a variety thereof, but she was continually tasked with helping exotic plants grow in a climate they weren't suited to just so folks could have nice gardens and eat fancy. And the king of the land kept tightening the laws around the practice of magic - first you had to declare your intention to pursue study, then you had to be licensed, then you had to be of a particular lineage…
Then the old king died and his son came into power and things went downhill from there. He saw the corruption in the council but instead of removing the corrupt individuals and instigating checks and balances he decided the problem was magic itself and completely outlawed it. It was at the point where the council really didn't have a leg to stand on and had to let itself be disbanded.
Jorès refused to put up with users of (now outlawed) magic being sent away to work the mines, and so he went with them. Gelenni was equally opposed to the new laws but she decided that she had too much influence to give it up by leaving. The king's new son (Ghilandar) had been left motherless by a vengeful weather mage and Gelenni did not want him growing up with the same outlook as his father. Because she was one of the few mages the king still trusted, he did not object to her overseeing Ghil's care until the turmoil died down and he remarried.
During these years Gelenni married that sound mage (he'd given her space but never really given up) and although they were too old to have children she adopted Ben when he was dropped off at the castle one day.
Gelenni is a really powerful plant mage - she could get full grown trees to uproot themselves, shuffle across town and replant themselves in a new location if she chose to. But she chooses not to. For the past eighteen years she's gardened like a normal person, abiding by the law in the hopes that a calm, consistent influence will change the direction the country is going.
(I was going to write more originally but it's now late and it's hard to find motivation - got a second rejection email in 24 hours. Bleh.)
Hello there!
He did have some constructive feedback though, like to get my work professionally edited (not sure how much it costs to get all 700 words of a picture book text professionally edited) and to develop an author brand and outline the return on investment a publisher is going to get
There are many things out there that discourage writers from publishing their work but I think few factors are as potent as the publishing industry
The only author I know personally (he's somewhat well-known, I guess) self-publishes. But I understand that that's not an option for everybody, especially since some books don't lend themselves to e-book format easily (such as picture books)
It's actually so frustrating because new people have such a hard time getting a foot into the industry whereas established authors can spew out things which, as you said, are at the level of the tweets of Him-who-must-not-be-named
This is a cool coincidence indeed
Reading your enthusiastic responses actually makes me feel more excited about my work (if that even makes sense?) and encourages me to poke my head out of this very proper and reserved shell.
That's what I'm here for
(Please ignore the fact that chameleons don't have shells and I mixed up my animal comparisons there.)
I don't know that could potentially be very adorable
It's probably already a creature in The Last Airbender
So I read through your second response and I have a bunch of questions, if you're alright with that (feel free to tell me to shut up at any point, or tell me that the questions annoy you, or whatever. I really don't mind) (they're also not meant to be me picking apart your ideas or trying to find fault with anything - it's honestly just curiosity) (I am the embodiment of the phrase "dense but curious")
Gelenni is a Soldorian woman
I was actually about to ask you about your fantasy ethnicities anyway! From what I can gather from Tani's page and the other thread, her looks stem very specifically from her ethnicity as a Solythian (sp?). How much genetic variation is there within any given ethnicity? When ethnicities do mix, what sort of dominance is there to determine which traits are passed on? (I can't formulate my question very well. For example, in humans, dark eye alleles are dominant over blue eye alleles, meaning that if one of the parents is heterozygous for brown eyes the child will definitely have brown eyes. This is 100% me overthinking, but which traits in your respective ethnicities are dominant and would be passed to the next generation?)
How common is it for the different groups to mix? When it comes to tension between factions inside your kingdom, is it more common to have magic/anti-magic divisions or racial divisions? How separate are the cultures of each ethnicities and does each race speak a different language? How many are there?
(wow that's a lot of questions) (just pick and choose if and which ones you answer)
At that time a lot of mages that made it into the council were able to do so because they were from well-off families (and thus could afford to be apprenticed to a more knowledgeable mage) or they had good connections, but Gelenni's father was just a humble shoemaker.
I've read your universe description and tried to understand the magic system. but just to clarify - before magic was banned, it was a trade you could learn and then make a living off of? Or was it more like a side occupation in addition to other jobs?
she was continually tasked with helping exotic plants grow in a climate they weren't suited to just so folks could have nice gardens and eat fancy.
This sort of relates to the last question - who tasks her? Was it part of her council duties or was it more like a little business? Why couldn't she choose to do what she wanted to do if she was in a position of power?
And the king of the land kept tightening the laws around the practice of magic - first you had to declare your intention to pursue study, then you had to be licensed, then you had to be of a particular lineage…
Bureaucracy.
Ew.
Then the old king died and his son came into power… he decided the problem was magic itself and completely outlawed it. It was at the point where the council really didn't have a leg to stand on and had to let itself be disbanded.
This is also 100% me overthinking politically, but how much power did the council have to begin with if it could easily be disbanded by the king? Was it more like a group of advisors to the king or was it like a parliament with its own specific powers and constitutional rights? Is there even a constitution or is it just a monarchy and whatever the king wants is what happens?
[On a scale of the duma under Tsarist Russia to American Parliament how powerful was the council, basically]
Because she was one of the few mages the king still trusted, he did not object to her overseeing Ghil's care until the turmoil died down and he remarried.
So did the king hate mages or just magic? Why would he trust a member of a known magical organisation? Was the deportation of mages to the mines not applicable to everyone?
Oh and how common would it be for a woman to be on the council? Is there any male/female tensions in this world or do they stand on equal ground?
(I was going to write more originally but it's now late and it's hard to find motivation - got a second rejection email in 24 hours. Bleh.)
Like I said - fools.
Hi again!
So I want to answer as many of your questions as I can as much for my benefit as yours because (a) I like worldbuilding, (b) you ask good questions and (c) the more fleshed out and consistent this world is the better the story will be. :) I apologise in advance for creating some things on-the-spot. :P Questions from another person's perspective are very helpful in filling worldbuilding/plotting holes.
But first
(Please ignore the fact that chameleons don't have shells and I mixed up my animal comparisons there.)
I don't know that could potentially be very adorable
I love your turteleon! Or chameleurtle. I think you have found my spirit animal. :D
And now on to the fun of answering questions!
How much genetic variation is there within any given ethnicity?
I'm not sure what terms are used to measure the amount of genetic variation but… a moderate amount? On my ethnicity pages I've given the average values for height, weight, skin tone, hair colour and curliness (or lack of curliness) etc,. for each ethnicity. (I don't like calling them 'races' because they're all humans - no elves, hobbits, dwarves, etc. in this world.) There's more variation evident in the towns and cities where people from all over congregate than there is in the more isolated farming villages or mountainous areas.
Basically Gàldorë has four major 'ethnicities' (Solan, Dorian, Lythian, Bellian). The Solan are descendants of the original inhabitants of the land. Bellian and Lythian both come from another people group who migrated to the area and settled in the central/south/west region, and Dorians are the most recent arrivals, having settled on the east coast. Within these four groups, there's not a whole lot of variance, but the past has seen quite a lot of intermarrying (though not as much with the Dorians), creating pockets of mixed ethnicity. Tani comes from an area where the Solan and Lythian people lived together (I've called this group Solythian such originality) and in these areas of mixed ethnicity, there's a lot more variation.
When ethnicities do mix, what sort of dominance is there to determine which traits are passed on?
I am not an expert in genetics by any means, but here's some of what I would set out for dominant traits:
Tall > short / Straight hair > curly / Double eyelid > monolid / Beards > not beards (for men) / Hearing > deaf
In terms of skin and hair colour, there tends to be a mix rather that one dominant outcome, and (geneticists would probably shun me) red hair and non-brown eyes are less recessive than they are on earth. I'm thinking probably they're governed by multiple genes rather than just one. Also, darkness of skin is not linked to darkness of hair. I think that sort of answers the question?
How common is it for the different groups to mix?
Depends which groups. :P Lythians are the 'mixiest' and Dorians the least 'mixy', but in general, while you might get pockets of it, there's not a lot of ethnic segregation. An exception might be traders from other lands (I haven't named the country yet), but they like to keep to themselves.
When it comes to tension between factions inside your kingdom, is it more common to have magic/anti-magic divisions or racial divisions?
More common than both of these are the divisions over religion, but the tension over magic is greater than that over race.
How separate are the cultures of each ethnicities and does each race speak a different language?
Aaaand this reminds me that I really need to work on some cultural aspects. :D As a non-committal answer I would say not too separate. Bellians and Lythians' culture would be quite similar to each other, the predominant culture would be a mix of that and Solan culture, and the Dorian culture would be more in the minority. As for languages, there are different dialects in different regions, but Gàldorean is spoken pretty much country-wide. When the Dorians arrived (way back whenever it was - I realise I need to work on the history of the place too) they adopted the local language to facilitate trade but kept their own tongue alive as well. This is now Saras, and although it's not many people's first language, it's often learned in order to communicate with the as-yet-unnamed traders since it's related to their mother tongue and thus easier for them to use. The 'Saras' Dorian children learn along the coast, however, is really more of a creole formed when it mixed with Gàldorean. Oh, also, the Solan people of the far north have a sign language.
How many are there?
Four main ethnicities, basically. (Plus the traders makes five.) I have seven more for different ethnic mixes.
Thank you so much for this opportunity to flesh out my world a bit. :D I'll look at the government/Gelenni questions in another post - work calls!
I'm in a bit of a dilemma - on the one hand I feel like I should respond and express all the interest I now have in the nitpicky details of your ethnicities. On the other hand, that would mean that I ask further questions even though you haven't had the chance to answer the first questions, and that seems super impolite.
I guess since I'm on mobile I'll take the lazy way out and give you the opportunity to absorb my earlier questions before i send another deluge your way.
Thank you so much, again, for letting me be weird and obsessive about your fictional universe!
(Speaking of which, why is your universe called Nossi? What's the relationship between Nossi and Gàldorë?)
I'm in a bit of a dilemma - on the one hand I feel like I should respond and express all the interest I now have in the nitpicky details of your ethnicities. On the other hand, that would mean that I ask further questions even though you haven't had the chance to answer the first questions, and that seems super impolite.
Hehe, don't worry! I started a post answering the government questions, realised my government system is a shell at best and my knowledge of politics is zip, so I've been doing a bit of research into worldbuilding governments realistically. A timeline of the history of Gàldorë might be in the works, and that will probably include the spread of ethnicities, languages and (possibly) religion. If you save your questions, some may be answered in my next rambling of a post. :P
(Speaking of which, why is your universe called Nossi? What's the relationship between Nossi and Gàldorë?)
Nossi is the name of the world (existence) that most of my stories are set in - it's a variation of the Gàldorean word for 'cloth'. Gàldorë is a kingdom on the east coast of a continent in the southern hemisphere of this world.
A timeline of the history of Gàldorë might be in the works, and that will probably include the spread of ethnicities, languages and (possibly) religion.
Excellent! This pleases me on a deep obsessive level (though obviously you don't have to share it with me if you don't want to)
(I'm sorry for making you do so much work) (though yay for worldbuilding!)
If you save your questions, some may be answered in my next rambling of a post. :P
Great! I'll start a piggy bank.
[badum tssss] [sorry, really bad joke] [i'll stop now]
Hi again! I'm here to tackle some government questions. As I said before, I'm still researching this whole thing, so a lot of it is probably subject to change as I learn how to do things better. If you know of any resources that would help my governmentally-challenged self, I would be eternally grateful.
I've read your universe description and tried to understand the magic system. but just to clarify - before magic was banned, it was a trade you could learn and then make a living off of? Or was it more like a side occupation in addition to other jobs?
In some cases you would be able to make a living from your use of magic alone, especially if you were really good at it, but it was generally used as an enhancer in other jobs. Like the practice of firedance, for example - the aesthetic use of flame adds to the musical and gymnastic aspects of of the sport, but you couldn't get by just on your skill at manipulating fire alone. Or if you could do a bit of weather magic - predict the week's weather, stave off a rainstorm until later in the afternoon so no one gets wet at your niece's wedding - that would definitely be a side job.
Who tasks her? Was it part of her council duties or was it more like a little business? Why couldn't she choose to do what she wanted to do if she was in a position of power?
How much power did the council have to begin with if it could easily be disbanded by the king? Was it more like a group of advisors to the king or was it like a parliament with its own specific powers and constitutional rights? Is there even a constitution or is it just a monarchy and whatever the king wants is what happens?
(Here we enter the nebulous grey mist that is my lack-of-a-coherent-political-system.)
What I had in mind is some level of constitutional monarchy. Basically, there are some rules in place so it isn't 100% what the king says goes, but he does have the most power in the system (he's not a figurehead). Then there are the delegates from the various regions of Gàldorë who represent their region's interests and also advise the king. The council of mages was originally set up (however many hundreds or dozens of years ago) to provide some sort of order and consistency in the practice of magic and rules governing it. They grew in power (and unfortunately, corruption), which the late king noticed and tried to put a stop to via all the new rules. This gradually lessened their power, and so did the fact that a lot of them were getting older and not taking on many new apprentices.
Gelenni would have been on the council but not one of the top seven, and therefore mostly had to do what the plant-mage-in-charge decided. At the point when the council was disbanded, of the seven leaders one had murdered the queen (and was exiled), one was an accomplice to the murder (and was dead), one had killed the accomplice (and was ready to quit the whole thing), and two were pretty old, so the council was not in a position to pull itself together and push back against the king's decree.
So did the king hate mages or just magic? Why would he trust a member of a known magical organisation? Was the deportation of mages to the mines not applicable to everyone?
The king hates magic, but not necessarily its users (he was head-over-heels for the mage that murdered his wife - long story). He was quite good friends with Jorès before the whole argument and the fact that Gelenni was (a) Jorès's sister and (b) willing to put aside her use of magic and stay did a lot to build the king's trust in her as a person. Oh, and being sent to the mines as punishment was only for those caught using magic after the law was enacted (although before this, people could be punished for unlicensed use of magic, so now all use of magic counts as unlicensed). Previous use of magic was not punished (although some known users were closely monitored).
Oh and how common would it be for a woman to be on the council? Is there any male/female tensions in this world or do they stand on equal ground?
Pretty common - I think my draft ratio is at least 60/40 men/women. Some areas of magic are more likely to have women in the top fields, like plant magic and fire magic, but there's no sex restriction for being on the council - it was a lot more of a class one.
As an aside, if you're wondering about the publishing saga, I contacted the editor recommended to me and applied for their free sample edit, as you do, and they changed the rhythm of my stanzas (in a non-rhythmic way) and put full stops in weeeeirrrrd places. Like, imagine I had the sentence,
They would alter it to:
Even MS Word green-underlines that last bit! My confidence is severely shaken in the grammatical prowess of professional editors. But on the plus side, that bit of editing was free.
As another aside (I should probably keep this quick as this post is getting very long), I have started putting together a timeline of events for Gàldorë on a really cool timeline creator that I found online. If you would like to take a look, here's the link: History of Gàldorë. The password is nossi - all lowercase. The Language and Ethnography spans are mostly done, but I have stuff to add to Religion/Magic and People/Events so be aware that those spans have large gaps still. :)
Greetings!
If you know of any resources that would help my governmentally-challenged self, I would be eternally grateful.
I don't really know resources that are… available to the public, I guess? I took a two year online course of A-Level Government and Politics (4/10 do not recommend) so I suppose I could answer questions?? I mean certainly I know only very little, but I could offer up my assistance if so desired. Otherwise, I surface-googled (meaning that you probably already came across this/know all this because you're the most thorough and dedicated person I've ever met) (your timeline still has me in silent awe) (how do you put in so much effort??? this is beyond anything I've seen) (that's it you're my senpai now)
Anyway back on track
This article is a pretty decent summary of all things government-related, including Aristotle's original analysis (basically he described three utopian forms - monarchy, aristocracy, and polity - which through selfish abuse can turn into three dystopias - tyranny, oligarchy, and ochlocracy) as well as the purposes of government, ways of dividing authority, and the separation of powers (which refers to the overlap (or rather, lack thereof) between executive, legislative, and judiciary branches of government).
(This is a lot of jargon which I'm hoping you're somewhat familiar with)
All this to say that
What I had in mind is some level of constitutional monarchy. Basically, there are some rules in place so it isn't 100% what the king says goes, but he does have the most power in the system (he's not a figurehead).
What you're describing is, I think, technically called a "limited monarchy" (cf Medieval England with the King and the Magna Carta) which hopefully should be explained in the article under the "monarchy" section. Though, the world of government and politics (as you'll find out, should you choose to delve into it) is full of obnoxiously pretentious scholars who refuse to accept each other's technical terms so you'll have people talking about the same thing using different words, or mean something completely different when they say the same thing.
Because that's not frustrating at all if you're trying to learn about it -_-
(Constitutional monarchy and limited monarchy are either interchangeable or not, depending on who you're talking to) (google seems to prefer constitutional monarchy)
Wow I'm really sorry for all these words.
The bottom line (TL;DR): I like to think that taking a class and passing some exams makes me somewhat qualified to talk about governments, but this incoherent ramble should be sufficient proof that, once again, I have no idea what I'm doing and should not be trying to give out advice, but I am willing to if you lack other viable alternatives or if you especially enjoy confusion and essay-length posts.
Anyway
Gelenni would have been on the council but not one of the top seven, and therefore mostly had to do what the plant-mage-in-charge decided.
So how many people would be in the council at any given time? Would people like Gelenni be sort of like civil servants or assistants to the Seven? What sort of decisions would the council be in charge of making?
I just realised I'm throwing a load of questions your way about a body which isn't even in power anymore during your story (as far as I can tell). Sorry about that.
(although some known users were closely monitored).
What would qualify you to be monitored?
Both Lord Rilvan and Ben apparently use magic for their own benefit. Is this with or without the king's consent?
As an aside, if you're wondering about the publishing saga, I contacted the editor recommended to me and applied for their free sample edit, as you do, and they changed the rhythm of my stanzas (in a non-rhythmic way) and put full stops in weeeeirrrrd places. Like, imagine I had the sentence,
- It was the gardener, tall and lean, the reckless kind of country lad who likes a good haystack-nap now and then.
They would alter it to:
- It was the gardener, tall and lean, the reckless kind of country lad. Who likes a good haystack-nap now and then.
Even MS Word green-underlines that last bit! My confidence is severely shaken in the grammatical prowess of professional editors. But on the plus side, that bit of editing was free.
…..
I think I stopped questioning the publishing industry a long time ago
Or maybe it's just us mere mortals who care about having odd clauses given their own sentences and other such petty concerns
I have started putting together a timeline of events for Gàldorë on a really cool timeline creator that I found online.
I think I mentioned this but I am in love with your timeline and all of the effort and creativity and organisational skills that obviously surround it.
Reading through your history, I couldn't help but notice some parallels to Biblical history (most apparent in the Rifts which come about due to humanity's error and further sever them from the original vision for the world) (that sounds very similar to the Biblical ideas of the Fall and original sin). Is this intentional?
Do the religions you've created have anything to do with theological ideas or am I reading into things here (especially since it does seem to be a polytheistic society with several gods)?
Another question - are there Gàldorean month names or are they just referred to by their number?
Oh and the seasons also seem to parallel those on Earth. Is there any difference between Earth summer and Nossi summer (or any of the other seasons) or do they function exactly the same?
Well I just read through this again and realised how long this was. I do apologise for this obscenely long and rambly response. Thank you so much for answering my weird questions!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge on governments! I will definitely read that article - I'm thinking after some research that it might be more helpful for me to work out how the authority in the country is divided, and what the government handles versus what it doesn't, and then find the right label for exactly what it is (which will probably be some form of constitutional monarchy).
I read one world-builder's advice (on StackExchange, I think?) that recommended developing social structures first since a change in power at the top often has very little effect on the peasants. I like the idea of having guilds for different trades (and possibly magics) and merchants (some from other lands), but I'm still working on these ideas. Do you know much about the formation and running of guilds?
So how many people would be in the council at any given time? Would people like Gelenni be sort of like civil servants or assistants to the Seven? What sort of decisions would the council be in charge of making?
I'd say about…. 20-50 people? I know that's a huge margin, but each of the Seven would have at least three assistants (and yes, Gelenni would have been like an assistant to the head plant mage). Because they have experience with magic, they'd be in charge of dealing with magical 'accidents' or crimes, mainly because they know what's possible with magic and also how to track magical use to its user (in some cases). They would also liaise with other areas of government, like finding the right people to complete tasks that need magic for non-magical projects (for example, hiring some good weather mages to keep off rain in the last stages of an aqueduct being built).
I just realised I'm throwing a load of questions your way about a body which isn't even in power anymore during your story (as far as I can tell). Sorry about that.
Don't be! Part of the overarching plot (but not in book 1) might be reinstating the council, although not exactly how it was, so it's helpful for me to know how exactly it worked before so that I have an idea of how it will work after.
What would qualify you to be monitored? Both Lord Rilvan and Ben apparently use magic for their own benefit. Is this with or without the king's consent?
Being a more skilled user of magic who also has an attitude seen as hostile to the king would get you monitored. Fire mages in particular were on the radar, since a lot of damage can be done very quickly with fire. As for Lord Rilvan, he doesn't use magic himself, and initially followed the king's decree, but realised very quickly that his family's way of life was going to be a lot less comfortable. Having the 'best' magic users sent to the mines (which are in his lands) was really too much of a temptation and he has begun 'employing' them covertly. The king does not know of this, and if he did, he would not give consent.
As for Ben, he's not using his magic actively. Each Thread of magic has a side-effect that increases in strength with magic use, and for light magic, this is the ability to see into the liminal (magical) realm. Ben has the very barest glimmer of this side-effect and would rather not use it, but because it's handy for locating recent users of magic, the king wants him to. The only way to strengthen the side-effect is to practice magic actively, but because Ben does not do that, overuse of trying to see into the liminal realm gives him massive headaches. I hope that makes sense.
Reading through your history, I couldn't help but notice some parallels to Biblical history. Is this intentional?
Yes, it is. :) The First Rift is meant to parallel the Fall, and the Second Rift is sort of a combination of further fall-esque events, like the flood, the tower of Babel, people going into exile, etc. That much history probably won't come up in my story, but getting it down was very helpful for integrating how the magic system works and how it has changed over time.
Do the religions you've created have anything to do with theological ideas or am I reading into things here (especially since it does seem to be a polytheistic society with several gods)?
I'm not sure what you mean by this question. Do you mean do my religions have anything to do with Christian theology (if so, some of them, yes) or if there are existing gods/supernatural beings in this world (if so, also yes)? The majority religion in Gàldorë is a polytheistic one, but there are others as well.
Another question - are there Gàldorean month names or are they just referred to by their number?
Aha, yes. :) I just haven't put them in there because I didn't want to go overboard on the made-up words. In Tani's profile I've listed her birth month as Lillondal which roughly translates to 'month of clear sky' as it's the first month of summer. I refer to the Nossin months by number (and the weekdays by number too) because I need a reference separate from any of the different cultures.
Oh and the seasons also seem to parallel those on Earth. Is there any difference between Earth summer and Nossi summer (or any of the other seasons) or do they function exactly the same?
Short answer: no, they're pretty much the same. The major difference between Earth's year cycle and Nossi's is that Nossi's is only 360 days long, and the lunar cycles are exactly 30 days. I did this because I wanted to make it easy for myself to work out the phase of the moon on a given day (and by extent, tides), and it's a lot easier to do that with a predictable calendar that repeats itself every seven years, rather than one that repeats itself every 49 years! (My original draft - yes, I was completely mad.) I've made it hard enough for myself having the Gàldorean calendar be 3 1/2 months off from Nossi's one. (If that is news, search up Doric the Left-Handed on the timeline.) Whyyyy I do this I don't know.
Hello again
I'm thinking after some research that it might be more helpful for me to work out how the authority in the country is divided, and what the government handles versus what it doesn't, and then find the right label for exactly what it is (which will probably be some form of constitutional monarchy).
To be fair, in a fantasy world it would be entirely appropriate for you to come up with your own label for how the government works - after all, with different factors in play than here on earth (different religions and magic, to name a few) I'd almost expect government and administration to develop along a different path than here on earth.
Do you know much about the formation and running of guilds?
Generally I know more about trade unions and the modern form of guilds, but from my limited knowledge I think medieval guilds would be exactly the sort of thing that would fit well into your world! From what I gather, guilds were formed by receiving "letters patent" from the king/ruler/general authority to have what was basically a monopoly over their specific trade in their specific area.
In many towns, only people who were part of a guild were allowed to practice that particular trade, and only "master craftsmen" (people who were verifiably experts of their trade) were allowed to be part of guilds. So if you wanted to be, say, a glassblower, then you'd have to become an apprentice to a master glassblower in a glassblower guild. After a schooling period, in which you were only taught the very basics because you needed to prove yourself trustworthy, you'd become a craftsman and then a journeyman. [Journeymen had to go on a 3 year journey period (they got special letters/papers from the guild) in which they went to other towns and even countries and learned from other masters and shared skills and stuff (sort of like a modern-day consultant).] Then you'd come back after 3+ years, give the guild money and tools and stuff (though this was often conveniently waived if you were the son of an existing guild member) and create a "masterpiece" that proved you were worthy of joining the guild, and then maybe you'd become a master.
(odd side note - it wasn't even that uncommon for women to be part of guilds. Usually as the widow/orphan of a former member, but also just as a master craftswoman in whatever trade it was - except healing. Women healers was a no-go for some odd reason.)
Guilds were crazy influential in towns, often making up a large part of the administration (probably the reason that you had to be a member of a guild to be able to practice a certain trade, tbh) and basically dictating the town's economy (fixing prices, regulating trade for their own benefit, restricting entrance to the guild, etc). They were disbanded (wrong word - some still exist today. let's say they lost power) around the entry of laissez-faire politics and free trade capitalism (though if that makes them sound Communist - they weren't. Marx hated them too).
Another aspect of guilds is that they were shady. Especially earlier guilds had lots of secrets and mystery and "conjurations" (when members got drunk together at pagan festivals and vowed (binding oaths, mind you) to support each other's business ventures, protect each other, maybe kill that one specific enemy). The Freemasons? They come from guilds. Very shady business.
So this is very basic knowledge that you could probably get from Wikipedia [edit: yes, all of this was on Wikipedia] [wow ninja so helpful] but I hope it at least gives you an outline of guilds and an idea of how they could work in your universe, or maybe just ideas for what else you might like to research?
Anyway
Because they have experience with magic, they'd be in charge of dealing with magical 'accidents' or crimes, mainly because they know what's possible with magic and also how to track magical use to its user (in some cases). They would also liaise with other areas of government, like finding the right people to complete tasks that need magic for non-magical projects
This is, once again, 100% me being picky about something that's not fully developed yet. But it sounds like the council (or the lower ranks, at least) are more of an administrative body than a governing one, especially if the king is then able to regulate the laws that govern magic and make it more difficult to access. Did the council have any legislative powers or did it implement and regulate legislation created somewhere else?
As for Ben, he's not using his magic actively. Each Thread of magic has a side-effect that increases in strength with magic use, and for light magic, this is the ability to see into the liminal (magical) realm. Ben has the very barest glimmer of this side-effect and would rather not use it, but because it's handy for locating recent users of magic, the king wants him to. The only way to strengthen the side-effect is to practice magic actively, but because Ben does not do that, overuse of trying to see into the liminal realm gives him massive headaches. I hope that makes sense.
So would this be the "innate" or the "passive" aspect of magic? In your description of phosphomancy in the Nossi Universe, it says that
- Innate: Glimpse traces of others' magic. These traces manifest as different wavelengths of light in the soul realm.
- Active: Manipulate light. This includes making items glow, bending light in order to make things invisible or harder to see, and altering light traces left in the soul realm.
- Passive: Night vision, the strength and effectiveness of which improves with skill.
which suggests that seeing the liminal realm would be the "innate" aspect of magic. But this
Innate: Magic that can be achieved without training or practice.
Active: Magic achieved through training and practice.
Passive: Secondary abilities that improve as magic is practised and do not require energy or choice to be used.
along with your explanation above makes it sound like it's the passive aspect which is in use. Or is it none of these entirely?
(I'm not sure why exactly I find this so confusing or why I care so much) (but oh well)
I'm not sure what you mean by this question. Do you mean do my religions have anything to do with Christian theology (if so, some of them, yes) or if there are existing gods/supernatural beings in this world (if so, also yes)? The majority religion in Gàldorë is a polytheistic one, but there are others as well.
Sorry for the confusion. I was asking about whether or not your religions have anything to do with Christian theology.
So if there are several religions, do they worship different gods/supernatural beings or do they argue about which ones to worship/ how to worship them? If each religion worships different beings, how many of these beings actually exist? Are there any religions which are simply "wrong" because no such beings exist in Nossi?
The existence of supernatural beings raises a whole new load of questions from my side (because there haven't been enough of those already). Do these beings interact with the world? If so, how? Were they the ones present at the Weaving (I think that's what it was called?) and do they correspond with different threads of magic? If they interfere with the world, then on what basis? How do they feel about the human race and how do they feel about each other (like are certain deities/beings in conflict with each other and if so, how would that play out)?
I did this because I wanted to make it easy for myself to work out the phase of the moon on a given day (and by extent, tides)
Are the lunar phases and tides important to the story? If so, how?
Well that was another essay. Sorry that this is so ridiculously huge.
Thank you for sharing all that cool information about guilds! (Yes, I saw that you said a lot of it is on Wikipedia but I find your posts waaaaay more engaging than Wikipedia any day. :P) That is so interesting about journeymen. Of all the medieval stuff injected into modern medievalesque fantasy, the concept of journeymen is not one I think I've ever seen. To be honest, the concept of having to learn something over a long period of time and not getting it immediately is not one often seen in modern fantasy either. (Oh wow, just look how skilled that random farm boy is at using a sword he's never held before and speaking three languages, none of which he grew up with!)
Now I'm wondering how the journeyman thing would work when it comes to family. From my limited medieval knowledge I thought that folks (and girls especially) got married pretty young, and due to basically nonexistent birth control that meant kids very soon, and that in turn means no travelling around for three years, lassie. So would a guild-wannabe go journeying when they were young before starting a family? Or travel with their family? Would they get to pop back home every few months to say hi to dear old mum? And depending on the craft it might be very difficult to transport your tools, so I can see how you'd have to stay with another master of the trade.
(These are not questions for you particularly, they're questions I have for myself. :P I really want to go with guilds now, which means a lovely new lot of research. Do I like research? Most of the time, yes. :))
Another aspect of guilds is that they were shady. Especially earlier guilds had lots of secrets and mystery and "conjurations" (when members got drunk together at pagan festivals and vowed (binding oaths, mind you) to support each other's business ventures, protect each other, maybe kill that one specific enemy)..
XD I might incorporate some of that. I mean, I wouldn't make it a rule that guilds have to have secret initiation ceremonies and swear oaths to each other, but I'm sure that there are guilds in a few towns that take the whole thing a bit too far.
But it sounds like the council (or the lower ranks, at least) are more of an administrative body than a governing one, especially if the king is then able to regulate the laws that govern magic and make it more difficult to access.
I would agree with you on the lower ranks being largely administrative, especially in these last times. It's still in development, but I would say the council had little to no legislative powers and the powers they did have were more executive and judicial (If that sounds like I'm spouting jargon I don't understand then that's because I am. XD I'm still working out what these terms mean - it doesn't help that the Australian Government lumps some of them together.)
So would this [Ben's use of magic] be the "innate" or the "passive" aspect of magic?
I realise the terminology I've been using is inconsistent and a bit confusing. Basically, the innate and passive aspects of magic are connected. The innate aspect is a bit like the starting level of both the active and passive aspects. Without any effort on his part, Ben can see flickers of others' magic at random times. If he used active magic, he'd be able to see these traces of magic all the time and at greater strength (and thus it would require no effort or choice on his part to do so), and because of ambient light in the liminal realm, this also means increased ability to see in the dark. But because Ben does not use active magic, he's trying to 'force' these innate flickers of sight, and because that's not how it works, doing so has negative effects on him. I hope that can clear things up a bit.
From the legal system's perspective, passive magic is observing things, and active magic is changing things. If Gelenni were to use her plant magic's passive aspect to sense the fact that a tree marked for chopping was not dead but dormant, she wouldn't be in trouble, but if she used the active aspect to get a tree to lower its branches so she could pick fruit more easily, she would be. (Side note: she tries to do neither. I've decided she stays away from gardening so as to be above reproach when it comes to her use of magic.) (I know this contradicts what I said about Gelenni before, but I'm constantly trying to make things better so things do change. Sorry. ^^; )
Sorry for the confusion. I was asking about whether or not your religions have anything to do with Christian theology.
No worries! :) Like the world history, many other aspects of Nossi are influenced by Biblical/Christian elements as well.
Are the lunar phases and tides important to the story? If so, how?
No, not really. I just figured they might be important (like needing a full moon for some night event) and a very vague idea for book 5 (or 6 or 7 - it's very vague) may need the protagonist to travel between towns and countries by ship and tides would then come in handy. There's also a culture (not in Gàldorë and probably not in any of the stories I'm currently plotting) in Nossi that worships the Moon and has major religious events coinciding with full moons and new moons. I'm thinking I would like the phase of the moon someone is born under to have some kind of cultural significance in Gàldorë (a bit like star signs work in our world) - entirely unfounded, but kinda cool. Like, it being bad luck to marry someone born under a new moon, or to sign agreements at the 'fairest' time of the month, i.e., half-moon waxing or waning.
(I have half a post drafted looking at the religion and gods/supernatural beings questions, but I'll probably finish that tomorrow. :))
(Yes, I saw that you said a lot of it is on Wikipedia but I find your posts waaaaay more engaging than Wikipedia any day. :P)
(I should probably mention how irrationally happy this little side note made me) (I mean, I may not have written anything remotely decent in months and I may not know how to punctuate a sentence but @Riorlyne thinks my posts are more engaging than Wikipedia!!) (I must be doing something right) (senpai noticed me)
To be honest, the concept of having to learn something over a long period of time and not getting it immediately is not one often seen in modern fantasy either. (Oh wow, just look how skilled that random farm boy is at using a sword he's never held before and speaking three languages, none of which he grew up with!)
(Looking at you, A New Hope) (technically that's not really fantasy) (but this "this character has no history with x but is suddenly super skilled at x" is a trope that needs to die out and return to the depths from whence it came in all genres)
Now I'm wondering how the journeyman thing would work when it comes to family.
So as it turns out I had a slight misconception in my earlier post (the price of listening to me over Wikipedia - I am very much fallible and will get things wrong). Journeymen didn't necessarily have to leave home, and sometimes apprentices could skip the journeyman stage and go straight to master. Journeyman, from what my new research has shown me (thank you for introducing me to this new obsession, by the way) (it's actually ridiculous how deeply fascinated I am by this now) were more like employees who were allowed to work for a master but live separately with their own family (apprentices were part of their master's household). Journeymen weren't allowed to take apprentices but a lot of people stayed in the journeyman stage without really ever going on journeys (if I'm reading this right).
Also, apprentices were usually in their early teens when they were sent to their 7-year apprenticeship (they didn't even get to pick their trade, it was just a matter of who their family was connected with). So they were still quite young when they left their apprenticeship and it wasn't uncommon for them to marry into the family of their master and work as an employee for their former master in their journeyman years.
I just had a really odd memory of a book that portrayed this sort of relationship quite well, I believe. I'm not sure if it's been translated to English, but it's the book Krabat by Otfried Preußler (it's orginally in German). The plot revolves around a 14 year old who becomes apprenticed to a master of magic, and it provides a pretty accurate demonstration of how this sort of relationship might work out in a story (though as far as I recall there are no guilds in the book) (it's been a while though)
I have such a deep obsession with this now. I won't bore you with most of the other things I found, except for this:
This here is an article about modern journeymen in Germany and how they have this odd mix of keeping tradition alive while conforming to the modern world. One thing the article doesn't mention is that the earring which is added in the initiation ceremony is actually a gold ring meant to pay for the journeyman's funeral should he die along the way.
I think in German the whole journeyman journeying or not journeying is a lot clearer because you're either a "Geselle" or a "Wandergeselle", and the latter is the group who travels while the earlier is the same rank but without the travel.
It's pretty cool.
(I have no life.)
(I'm still working out what these terms mean - it doesn't help that the Australian Government lumps some of them together.)
What government doesn't though. As a certain pirate captain would put it, they're more like guidelines than actual rules anyway.
I hope that can clear things up a bit.
It certainly did, thank you very much!
Like the world history, many other aspects of Nossi are influenced by Biblical/Christian elements as well.
…
…
(… such as…?) (Only if you have time and energy to answer that, obviously) (I'm so glad that I wasn't just reading into things though. I think I'm sometimes too eager to put on my "Christian" lens and see allusions and parallels that aren't really there, if you know what I mean) (I blame the Chronicles of Narnia)
Like, it being bad luck to marry someone born under a new moon, or to sign agreements at the 'fairest' time of the month, i.e., half-moon waxing or waning.
This is the sort of quality content I am looking for when it comes to worldbuilding
Like I love little details just like these that make a culture seem rich, like the little superstitions and asides and odd little customs that don't directly influence the narrative but make the culture seem real
A lot of the time it bothers me when a culture is only stiff and formal and obviously built up for plot convenience (like yes I'm here for the system of government but I'm also here for the songs of questionable content that no sober man will admit to knowing but everyone will yell them out together at the end of long nights at the bar) (if you know what I mean)
(I have half a post drafted looking at the religion and gods/supernatural beings questions, but I'll probably finish that tomorrow. :))
I look forward to it!
First of all, are you German (or from Germany, or near Germany, or speak German) by any chance? (You don't have to answer that if you don't want to - I'm too curious for my own good and you did mention two works written in German in the last post.) I studied a leeetle bit of German at uni but it's definitely not enough to hold a conversation, let alone read a novel (which is a pity because I would love to read Cornelia Funke's Inkheart trilogy and her Mirrorworld books [searches the internet for the title to check the title and apparently its the Reckless trilogy - pretty sure that's a new title, it wasn't called that when I read it] in the original language).
Moving on…
All right, I've got to have journeymen (and journeywomen) now. Apparently the name in English actually comes from the French 'journée' meaning day, as in a worker that is paid by the day, rather than a worker that travels. (Side note, journey as in 'travel' also comes from the same French word, meaning a day's work or travel.) So they're between apprentices and masters - they get wages (unlike apprentices) but don't have their own business/shop/etc.
I really love this idea! I'm thinking I could have different trades that are more likely to have journeymen go 'journeying' and trades where it's more common to stay put. Reading about all the little traditions in the article you linked was really cool, and the more I think about it, the more I think I've actually seen this in a book I read once a long time ago - it wasn't a fantasy, but it was about a painter's apprentice who went on a long journey painting people's houses for food and board and developing skill, all the while yearning for the sweetheart he'd left back in his home town. I can't remember the title or whether it was set in Europe or America.
(Twenty seconds later…) Thanks to the Google, I found it! (It helps that the title is actually Journeyman.) It's by Elizabeth Yates, set in America and nowhere near the medieval period. I read it when I was really young, so I wonder if I'd still love it as much if I managed to find a hardcopy of it now.
(… such as…?) (Only if you have time and energy to answer that, obviously) (I'm so glad that I wasn't just reading into things though. I think I'm sometimes too eager to put on my "Christian" lens and see allusions and parallels that aren't really there, if you know what I mean) (I blame the Chronicles of Narnia)
I love the Chronicles of Narnia. Those books and Tolkien's work were really what got me so interested in reading and writing works of fantasy and creating my own world/s. (I think I can say 'worlds' because my first 'book' was about a race of Pluggets living on top of a dormant volcano and that definitely is not part of anything Nossin.) I was surprised when I found out that some people having read Lewis's work didn't pick up on the Christian allegory of it, but then I forget how much my prior knowledge affects how I see things.
This is the sort of quality content I am looking for when it comes to worldbuilding
Like I love little details just like these that make a culture seem rich, like the little superstitions and asides and odd little customs that don't directly influence the narrative but make the culture seem real
This is what I love to hear! Sometimes I worry, like, 'Who's going to care or notice if culture A actually has no exact words for yes and no?" but I love adding detail like that (especially in the fields I'm obsessed with, like language).
(like yes I'm here for the system of government but I'm also here for the songs of questionable content that no sober man will admit to knowing but everyone will yell them out together at the end of long nights at the bar) (if you know what I mean)
Now I want to go write one of those. :P Dangit, and I'm still halfway through that religions and deities post too! :P So many ideas, too little time.
So… where to start when it comes to religions and deities?
Well, first off, for the beings that actually exist: in order of power level there are
As you're probably guessing, the beings that exist are a bit like God-Satan-Angels-Demons-Lesser angels/demons. Also, these are their names in Gàldorean. Other languages and religions might refer to them by other names.
When it comes to polytheistic religions, in most of them the pantheon of deities is based off Berad, Calar and the envoys in some way, although ideas of humanness are often overlaid on them and their levels of power are mixed up. For example, the majority polytheistic religion in Gàldorë, Bittereth, has seven deities that roughly correspond to Berad's envoys, but have been mixed up a bit with each other and with Calar's envoys and have human traits and relationships added to boot. (The goddess Lili* is the wife of Coront in Bittereth, whereas in actuality none of the envoys have partners, parents or children.)
Seven is a very common number for major deities in polytheistic religions because (a) seven envoys, (b) seven days in the week, and (c) seven Threads of magic. (As an aside, you asked what else was influenced by Christian theology, and I give you… the magic system! Instead of being based on the elements or different forces, I modelled the system on the seven days of creation in Genesis 1 (with a great deal of artistic licence taken).)
All of these beings were present at/existed during the Weaving, although only Berad did the weaving. The Seven envoys do correspond with the Threads of magic, but only in a guardian kind of sense.
In terms of interaction with the world, Berad, Calar and the envoys may appear to humans in human or animal form, and the ethereals appear only as creatures. Berad's peculiarity is that he's missing his left eye, no matter which form he appears in. Unlike humans, envoys and ethereals belong to a 'side' - they have allegiance to either Berad or Calar and do not change. Ethereals are more likely to appear around folks that have a strong allegiance to Berad or Calar (not just in name but in values), which means places used by the cult of Calar can be quite dangerous, because his ethereals are very nasty (also members of the cult of Calar have some unsavoury practices, so you wouldn't want to meet them or the ethereals).
I think that answers at least some of the questions that were asked originally! :)
wow i was late to the party. Sorry i haven't read all of your work (i am working on that) but i am still such a big fan and like @ninja_violinist I admire you so much even though i have only been apart of this site for a short time. you inspire me to write and be as creative and passionate as you. everytime i get an idea and i try to write i get five words in i get writers block and i just give up but you make me want to keep trying and never give up. once i get something down i would love it some much if you could read through and critique it. i am not going to say anything about tani because i think everything has been said already.
i love her and your writing and don't let one rejection tell you otherwise
First of all, are you German (or from Germany, or near Germany, or speak German) by any chance?
All of the above, I guess. I'm German by passport, but I only recently moved to Germany and am still learning the ropes when it comes to culture and customs and stuff (people here are a lot more direct than I'm used to and it makes me nervous). I have a deep respect for anyone who chooses to study German as a second language because even as a first language speaker it doesn't make sense to me and I barely scrape by, so kudos to you for taking that upon yourself!
I love the Chronicles of Narnia. Those books and Tolkien's work were really what got me so interested in reading and writing works of fantasy and creating my own world/s.
YES. CS Lewis and all his works have been favorites of mine ever since I had the Chronicles of Narnia as bedtime stories when I was super young - have you read any other of his books?
(I think I was too young when I read Tolkien to properly appreciate him - my impression was that it was generally overly descriptive, and a bit dull. I'll have to reread those sometime.)
Now for the Religions/Deities - I reread this several in the interest of not asking redundant questions that were already answered. But there are quite a few names and lots of information, and I am still "dense but curious", so I do apologise if any of my follow-up questions are irrelevant/stupid/have technically already been answered.
Well, first off, for the beings that actually exist: in order of power level there are
- Berad (the Weaver)
- Calar (the Unmaker)
- The Seven (Berad's envoys)
(These are Celatar, Gwennedir, Bennatar, Taëthedir, Lichedir, Ghelatar and Isulatar.)- The Six (Calar's envoys)
(Stand-in names are currently Ir, Da, Tol, Nun, Tend and Laën - the numbers one to six, they'll have actual proper names eventually)- The ethereals: various and numerous as-yet-unnamed subjects/minions who carry out Berad or Calar's bidding and act as messengers.
As you're probably guessing, the beings that exist are a bit like God-Satan-Angels-Demons-Lesser angels/demons. Also, these are their names in Gàldorean. Other languages and religions might refer to them by other names.
So I guess my main question is about the duality of Berad vs Calar. If Calar is the unpleasant Satan-esque sort of cosmic antagonist and Berad is the good sort of God-analogue, why does Berad (if he is above Calar in the power level sequence) allow Calar to exist? Or do they work more in a "yin/yang we need evil in order to have good and there needs to be balance" way? Is there some sort of great battle between Berad et. al and Calar and his crew or do they just sort of mildly tolerate one another in order to keep balance?
I'm trying to think of a way to ask my question/s in a less confusing way…
I guess, maybe, if you've seen the Legend of Korra (shot in the dark here), are Berad and Calar sort of like Raava and Vaatu?
Or are they more like God and Satan, where God allows Satan to exist but limits his powers and gives him a time limit until his destruction?
I suppose another question is whether they actively intervene with humanity or if they're more like… symbols? I guess? For example, would Calar actively go out of his way to "unmake" Berad's creation or is he generally passive but will interact and enhance the power of his cult-members so they can wreak havoc/evil?
How obvious is it that that these deities exist and how much do they influence the story? (finally found a way to word this)
When it comes to polytheistic religions, in most of them the pantheon of deities is based off Berad, Calar and the envoys in some way, although ideas of humanness are often overlaid on them and their levels of power are mixed up.
So do the envoys still respond to the worship? How aware are they of they humans and how much do they care?
How did the humans know that there were seven deities but mess up the rest of the information? Do the deities not care that the humans are badly informed?
So how were the names from above in Gàldorean if the majority in Gàldorë refers to them by different names?
In terms of interaction with the world, Berad, Calar and the envoys may appear to humans in human or animal form, and the ethereals appear only as creatures.
Under what circumstances would they choose to appear to humans? How often would that happen? Would it happen to someone more than once?
Is it a big deal for a minor ethereal to show up or is it more like "oh hey it's Kevin, haven't seen you in a while"? If one does show up, would the humans recognise them or not?
Berad's peculiarity is that he's missing his left eye, no matter which form he appears in.
Is that just a lil quirk of his or does it serve a greater purpose/ have a reason behind it/ foreshadow something important?
Oh, one more. You said that Berad is most powerful, but is he all-powerful? If not, then what are his limitations? If so, then that brings back the question of how involved he is and why he chooses to let events unfold as they do.
which means places used by the cult of Calar can be quite dangerous, because his ethereals are very nasty
(sorry I added the emphasis there) so are they more likely to show up in places that they've shown up before in or does it only depend on the people? Would the Calar cult members try to summon Calar's ethereals?
So, say an ethereal showed up in some random ruin (bad example) a few times to chat with the cult members or something (very bad example). If some person came along to that exact ruin in the daytime, when no cult members were present, and that person was strongly aligned with Berad, would the same ethereal show up because it's strongly drawn to the ruin and it kinda wants to ruin the day of anyone who's aligned with Berad? OR would the person's alignment with Berad be the thing that prevents the ethereal from showing up because it doesn't want to mess with someone like that, and any random person who comes along without any particular strong alignment would be in danger of ethereal attack?
(that was a lot of words) (I'm not very sure the question made sense, I apologise if it doesn't. You can just ignore it)
(please ignore any questions you don't want to answer)
I think that answers at least some of the questions that were asked originally! :)
Thank you very much for that! :)
Warning: Very Long Rambly Erratically Capitalised Post Ahead
I'm German by passport, but I only recently moved to Germany and am still learning the ropes when it comes to culture and customs and stuff (people here are a lot more direct than I'm used to and it makes me nervous).
I know what you mean about adjusting to culture and stuff - I spent most of my childhood in West Africa, but I’m Australian by passport. I think it makes it even more tricky adjusting to a culture when it's already supposed to be your culture. There's a weird sense that it's supposed to feel like home, but it doesn't. What region of the world did you live in previously (if you're comfortable sharing that information)? (By the way, I would never have guessed that English is not your first language.)
YES. CS Lewis and all his works have been favorites of mine ever since I had the Chronicles of Narnia as bedtime stories when I was super young - have you read any other of his books?
Yes, I have. I haven't read his theological and autobiographical works, but I've read the Space Trilogy and Screwtape Letters. Narnia is definitely my favourite, though. My parents used to read them to us and when it was my dad's turn he'd fall asleep in the middle of a paragraph. I think I was a bit too young when I read Perelandra and the others because I have only a vague idea of what happened in the stories and I remember being quite confused with how the main character was acting. But I was old enough to know that Venus is uninhabitable… Maybe I should try that trilogy again.
But there are quite a few names and lots of information, and I am still "dense but curious", so I do apologise if any of my follow-up questions are irrelevant/stupid/have technically already been answered.
No need to apologise! I tend to go overboard on the names, anyway. :) And as they say, there's no such thing as a stupid question. :P
Basically, Berad allows Calar to exist because Berad gave the Seven Firstmade (the first humans on Nossi) the freedom of choice and they chose to adopt Calar's ideals. As long as someone values the same stuff he does, he's still around. I haven't seen LoK (though I have seen AtLA and I love it and I'm actually rewatching the series right now) but Berad and Calar don't 'balance' each other - each wants the other eliminated. Calar's power is limited and he is fated to be destroyed at the end of time.
I suppose another question is whether they actively intervene with humanity or if they're more like… symbols?
Whether they intervene or not can depend on the situation. Calar would love to actively unmake all of Berad's creation, but he doesn't have enough power to do that and instead has to persuade or trick people into doing it for him. If people are being destructive without his input, he’s happy to sit back and watch. If they're all being good kids (unlikely), he'll intervene. Berad has power enough to change anything he wants, but chooses to work with humans. However, he doesn't necessarily 'bless' his followers with power, because power corrupts, and all that jazz.
How obvious is it that that these deities exist and how much do they influence the story?
The average person over their lifetime would probably encounter a supernatural being once or twice, and come across an ethereal (a nice one, more often than not) anywhere between once a year and daily, more so in times of trouble or if involved in seriously messed-up stuff (Berad’s ethereals can sometimes show up in these situations, in a ‘guardian angel’ type of role). Before the Mending (I will explain this Important! Capitalised! Term! further down), Berad's envoys would appear to humans in Berad's stead, but since then Berad shows up himself and his envoys remain largely unseen.
Though Berad, Calar and the envoys can change form, they can't (in Berad's case, won't) take the form of an existing person, and there are signs (if you're looking for them) that they're not actually human or animal (e.g., a sort of glow to their skin, no matter what shade; lack of sweat; invulnerability to physical harm; in Berad's case, a combination of magical abilities rather than just one, etc.). If they really wanted to the viewer could dismiss these encounters as random people or creatures, claiming the light was weird or they were tired or it was just a magical illusion.
As for the story I’m writing, I’m not sure yet how, or if, it will be influenced by supernatural beings. Nothing as religiously extreme as the Cult of Calar will feature, that's for sure. At the moment my antagonists are primarily against-the-protagonist types rather than completely-evil-destroy-the-world types that would no doubt attract a lot of unmade ethereals. I've also been working on Marisel's character page and debating whether or not to give her a companion ethereal.
Is that just a lil quirk of his or does it serve a greater purpose/ have a reason behind it/ foreshadow something important?
Berad's missing eye is due to a very Lion-Witch-Wardroby battle between him and Calar at the dawn of the Third Age. (This is the Mending.) (Long story short: he was primarily a user of light magic, which is connected to sight, and one way to hamper the user's magic would be to blind them.)
Oh, one more. You said that Berad is most powerful, but is he all-powerful? If not, then what are his limitations? If so, then that brings back the question of how involved he is and why he chooses to let events unfold as they do.
Yes, he is all-powerful, but he limits himself by allowing humans to make their own choices and face some of the consequences of those choices.
So do the envoys still respond to the worship? How aware are they of they humans and how much do they care?
How did the humans know that there were seven deities but mess up the rest of the information? Do the deities not care that the humans are badly informed?
Before the Second Rift, there was a lot more communication between humans and envoys and most folks lived in a centralised area, so word got around that there were seven and what they were like. Then as folks travelled further from each other, and especially due to fewer appearances from the envoys leading up to the Mending and afterward, the information got mixed up and embellished and changed with changing cultures. The 'seven' part mainly stayed constant due to the fact that the seven Threads of magic are a lot more observable.
Berad's envoys aren't fazed that the humans have things wrong about them because they don't want to be worshipped anyway. They'd care more that the humans don't worship Berad, but that's up to him.
So how were the names from above in Gàldorean if the majority in Gàldorë refers to them by different names?
I think the best way to explain is that one set of names refers to the actual envoys, and the other set refers to the embellished deities in Bittereth. For example, Gwennedir is the actual supernatural being who does Berad's bidding and keeps the weather patterns flowing, but in Bittereth Lili is the wife of the 'top god guy' and the mother of two other deities and she is the goddess of rain, healing and home who will bring health and fair weather to those who revere her and who will strike those who don't with illness or lightning, whichever suits her mood at that moment. Oof, big sentence. So, followers of Bittereth refer to Lili, and (some) monotheistic groups refer to Gwennedir, and they wouldn't say these two names refer to the same entity.
Is it a big deal for a minor ethereal to show up or is it more like "oh hey it's Kevin, haven't seen you in a while"? If one does show up, would the humans recognise them or not?
I laughed at that. I may have to name a minor ethereal Cevèn one day. ;) It's more of a big deal than an everyday occurrence, but some folks would see ethereals pretty often, and probably the same ones, so I can see them giving them names. Ethereals can't alter their form like the more major beings can, so if you saw one often enough you'd be able to recognise it.
Would the Calar cult members try to summon Calar's ethereals?
Short answer: they might try. The thing with Calar's ethereals is that they might turn on the cult members if they chicken out of the evil things they brainstormed to do. There's no guaranteed method of summoning a particular ethereal.
Your description of how ethereals work was pretty near to what I imagined. Their presence does depend on the people, but the more those people frequent a particular place, the more likely those ethereals are to hang around there, even when said nasty people are gone. If someone unsuspecting comes along, they would likely be attacked, although since ethereals cannot take life the unsuspecting person would probably be able to get out of there (unless the ethereals knock them out or restrain them until the cult members return). If someone strongly aligned to Berad and his values came along, there might be an ethereal fight. (Or, knowing that there might be a fight, the unmade ethereal would refuse to show up.)
Some additional worldbuilding - I'm thinking the unmade ethereals are in lots of ways the opposite of the made ones (a bit like how Tolkien's orcs are twisted elves).
I imagine an ethereal aligned with Berad and connected with fire magic being a bit like a semi-corporeal wolf with a kind of a red glow about it and long, wispy fur that looks like it's made of fire and smoke. Its counterpart, aligned with Calar, is still wolf-like in form but more charred-looking with eyes like glowing coals and an aura of swirling ash.
I feel like this was quite rambly and huge and probably very confusing, so sorry in advance for that! Also, you generally haven't asked questions I don't want to answer, just questions I don't have an answer for yet. :P I tend to 'create' the content for some of my answers after you've asked the questions (mostly because you uncover angles and tangents I hadn't considered yet, which is wonderful. Whoever first said that two brains are better than one was on to something. I love your questions) so I hope you don't mind my making this up as I go.
EDIT: Also please don’t think I mean you have to ask questions! If I ramble on about topics that aren’t your cup of tea feel free to let me know. :)
Thank you so much. :)
I think it makes it even more tricky adjusting to a culture when it's already supposed to be your culture. There's a weird sense that it's supposed to feel like home, but it doesn't.
Exactly!
What region of the world did you live in previously (if you're comfortable sharing that information)? (By the way, I would never have guessed that English is not your first language.)
Eastern Africa! (I've been mistaken for an American more times than I can count, especially since my English is probably better than my German at this point) (I'm byelingual - fluent in two languages, unable to communicate in either).
Basically, Berad allows Calar to exist because Berad gave the Seven Firstmade (the first humans on Nossi) the freedom of choice and they chose to adopt Calar's ideals. As long as someone values the same stuff he does, he's still around.
What exactly does he stand for, then?
Whether they intervene or not can depend on the situation. Calar would love to actively unmake all of Berad's creation
How come? Where does Calar come from, anyway - if Berad is all-powerful I assume he also created Calar, but why? Is it a Lucifer-esque story where he chose to rebel against Berad or is it something else? If he exists independently of Berad, then how?
Before the Mending (I will explain this Important! Capitalised! Term! further down), Berad's envoys would appear to humans in Berad's stead, but since then Berad shows up himself and his envoys remain largely unseen.
I'm still not quite clear on what the Mending is, exactly, and why it means that the envoys stepped back and let Berad do the heavy lifting - is it similar to Redemption in Christian terms? Is there any analogue for Redemption at all or does this world develop along another route?
At the moment my antagonists are primarily against-the-protagonist types rather than completely-evil-destroy-the-world types that would no doubt attract a lot of unmade ethereals.
What sort of antagonists do you have? I don't think I've ever asked this before, but what's your story actually about [facepalms] - like what's the conflict?
I've also been working on Marisel's character page and debating whether or not to give her a companion ethereal.
So would that be an ethereal that's constantly by her side or a sort of ethereal "get out of jail free" card that shows up when she's in trouble? How would that sort of relationship come about and would she be aware of it?
(Long story short: he was primarily a user of light magic, which is connected to sight, and one way to hamper the user's magic would be to blind them.)
So does that mean that Berad's actually hampered/inhibited in some way? If he's all-powerful, why does he choose to keep the one-eyed form (assuming that he could do anything he wanted to)?
Yes, he is all-powerful, but he limits himself by allowing humans to make their own choices and face some of the consequences of those choices.
Some consequences
So, like, some and not others?
Berad's envoys aren't fazed that the humans have things wrong about them because they don't want to be worshipped anyway. They'd care more that the humans don't worship Berad, but that's up to him.
So if the envoys technically don't want to be worshiped, why do they allow humans to do it (like, if someone in the Bittereth culture prayed to Lili and asked for health and fair weather, would Gwennedir respond to that even though it's technically not addressed to her and she technically doesn't want to be worshiped anyway?) (I mean not that Gwennedir is a she, I don't think) (but you know)
I imagine an ethereal aligned with Berad and connected with fire magic being a bit like a semi-corporeal wolf with a kind of a red glow about it and long, wispy fur that looks like it's made of fire and smoke. Its counterpart, aligned with Calar, is still wolf-like in form but more charred-looking with eyes like glowing coals and an aura of swirling ash.
(Suddenly I really want to see someone draw that) Would the other ethereals, being connected to other Threads, have looks that correspond with their respective Threads or would they all be fiery?
I feel like this was quite rambly and huge and probably very confusing, so sorry in advance for that!
Not that much, actually :)
I tend to 'create' the content for some of my answers after you've asked the questions… so I hope you don't mind my making this up as I go.
I actually think about that a lot when asking my questions, because I feel like it would be super boring for you to keep answering questions about stuff that you already know and just sort of rattle off, idk. I mean I'm happy to listen to anything related to your story, but I do hope that this can be mutually beneficial and that you can further develop your world instead of just typing out a summary of stuff you already know, if that makes sense
I think when I say "stupid" question, I generally mean that I hope I'm not asking you questions that you already know the answer to and have told me and I'm just being dense about it
I'm not making much sense here. Basically, I really do enjoy hearing about any topic that you mention, but I worry sometimes that I'm only skimming the surface and this is some sort of horrible brainless activity for you where you just go through your existing notes and compile a summary of what you've already got (because you're the most thorough worldbuilder I've ever come across). I do realise that this takes a lot of time on your part, so I hope that my questions actually lead you to further develop your world and actually benefit you rather than just making you regurgitate existing information.
wow that was a lot of words
okay
so anyway
I have a few more questions (yay, more questions in an already huge response -_-) about your cultures. I realise that you have several different ones in both Gàldorë and Nossi as a whole, so I guess these can just apply to whichever culture you feel like telling me about (if any) (or, you know, I could just let you absorb the rest of this monster post) (it's just that I'll forget them if I don't ask them now)