forum Debate. Debate. Debate.
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@evastardust groupRRAAAARRL

I cringed at 90% of those

Oh trust me I did too. Especially the ones I read in my first AP course and the teacher's prompts literally were: "Write down your feelings. Logic doesn't matter. Just eMoTiOnS~"

Blech

My class had to take notes on Frankenstein and for all of Victor's interactions with Henry I just typed 'GAY'

Oml xD

My class had this constant thing going where if the narrator went into way close of detail about another dude character's body, he was gay for that dude character

"Goodnight sweet prince, and let legions of angels carry you to rest"

@The-N-U-T-Cracker

(Maybe focus on the debate at hand? Like everyone else?)

(Except the reason I was asking was because I kinda already did the research and wrote a response… Maybe I’ll save it for times when there aren’t other debates going on?)

(If you're going to bring up abortion or religion again, I rather you didn't.
Firstly, because we've talked those subjects to death and myself/ others are tired of regurgitating the same information for the same arguments you present.
Secondly, there is no plausible ending/outcome for said arguments because no one is willing to change their views, no matter how blockheaded they are.
But I digress, I can't stop you from posting your response.)

(It actually wasn't about either of those topics…)

Deleted user

So you're going to say that White Males suffer the same amount of oppression and racism as Hispanics or African Americans?

REALLY

@BrennaKadavsky

We never said the same amount. It just exists, and it shouldn't be completely belittled by the old 'others have bigger problems' argument. By that argument, none of us should complain, because we at least have enough money for electronics.

Deleted user

I have never, ever in my life seen racism towards a white guy and I love in Southern California (aka: white guy central) and grew up blocks away from Skid Row in LA, where one would assume people hate on white people.

But daily I see racism towards Hispanics. Some lady told me to 'go back to mexico' the other day because I was speaking in Spanish to a Barista at Starbucks that I have known since high school. My neighbor is a hilarious giant black man, who loves to cook and tells me jokes when we see each other at the mail box, but he got locked out of our building by another neighbor who thought he was trying to rob us.

In what way does that happen to a white guy?

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

I cringed at 90% of those

Oh trust me I did too. Especially the ones I read in my first AP course and the teacher's prompts literally were: "Write down your feelings. Logic doesn't matter. Just eMoTiOnS~"

Blech

My class had to take notes on Frankenstein and for all of Victor's interactions with Henry I just typed 'GAY'

Lol.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

I have never, ever in my life seen racism towards a white guy and I love in Southern California (aka: white guy central) and grew up blocks away from Skid Row in LA, where one would assume people hate on white people.

But daily I see racism towards Hispanics. Some lady told me to 'go back to mexico' the other day because I was speaking in Spanish to a Barista at Starbucks that I have known since high school. My neighbor is a hilarious giant black man, who loves to cook and tells me jokes when we see each other at the mail box, but he got locked out of our building by another neighbor who thought he was trying to rob us.

In what way does that happen to a white guy?

What about Swimmy's example of people being beat up for being white? I'd say that counts.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

So you're going to say that White Males suffer the same amount of oppression and racism as Hispanics or African Americans?

REALLY

You really have to stop bringing this up as literally no one is arguing this. It's just that it exists. Also it is growing as time goes by. Also wouldn't big things start small? No it's not as bad as probably every other group ever. But just because it's a minority does not mean it should be instantly dismissed.

@The-N-U-T-Cracker

(You said there isn’t a single instance in which men have things worse than women, and while sure, there aren’t as many, there are quite a few, which is what I was arguing.)

Name one thing that men have/experience that isn't better than what women have/experience.

Alright.

1: Despite the fact that women are more likely to end up with depression, male suicide rates are far higher than female, and no one ever talks about it.

There are many possible reasons behind this, but one of the most relevant ones would be the societal pressure for men to be emotionally and physically strong. Due to this, they often bottle up their emotions, avoid taking antidepressants, and refuse to see a therapist or get help of any sort, so when they can't take it anymore, the only solution in their mind is to end it all…

2: They're expected to work harder and longer on more stressful/dangerous careers.

In fact, men make up 93-95% of workplace injuries and deaths.

…I rarely get to see my own father, he works his rear end off, stresses himself to tears, and loses countless hours of sleep over a job he hates so my family/I can have three meals a day, but oh nO my mom is truly suffering more because she has to cook meals for him when he gets home.
He wishes he could quit and actually spend time with his own children, but that's not an option.

Women are expected to feed/care for their children, while men are expected to completely burn themselves out daily, give all their earnings to their wives, and are then called lazy for resting once they get back.

Even my own mother is guilty of pushing this in a way, she focuses on my brothers and their success far more than mine/my sisters', putting them through significantly more stress while I'm over here slacking off. It absolutely sucks for both of us, but since I'm still technically learning what I truly need to know without all the extra stress, I feel way worse for my brothers…
My mom is extremely supportive of my artist career because she doesn't think I'll actually need the money from it, I'll instead have a "husband with a high-paying job to provide for me and my future children".
gags at the mere thought
Meanwhile, my mom is also trying to push my brothers into better careers. Usually in very subtle ways, but still focusing a bit more on their salaries than their happiness.

I know she’s not the only one.

3: They're often stereotyped as violent, heartless, and/or complete perverts.

When someone punches, kicks, or attacks a man, people either rarely pay any attention or sit there and watch for entertainment purposes. Yet if someone punches a woman, all hell breaks loose, they lose their reputation entirely, are probably arrested for assault, and everyone views them as a terrible excuse for a human being.

Also, in news reports, you'll commonly hear reporters read the number of people killed in a tragedy and then specifically point out how many of them were women/children. I get that children's deaths are extremely tragic, often more so than adults, but why women's? Can you imagine what would happen if news reporters only highlighted the men and children? People would absolutely flip out, claiming the reporter to be showing women's lives as throwaways or nothing worth mentioning. Yet ignoring the number of men who lost their lives is considered normal, like no one even questions it. I don't understand-

There’s also an insane amount of discrimination when it comes to prison, on average men receive up to 63% longer sentences than women for the same crimes. (This gets even worse in the case of black men, but that’s a bit off-topic.)

AND Let's also not forget how male victims of rape/sexual abuse are often laughed at, told to just deal with their trauma because "they probably wanted it".
…Men aren't sexually-driven monsters. They’re humans, just because they can’t get pregnant doesn’t mean this stuff can’t hurt them both physically and emotionally, yet people don’t seem to understand that concept.


Those are just a few prime examples, I can think of many, many others that I either don't have the time to explain at the moment or don’t know how to explain while still making any sense (such as the many divorce and tax-related problems).

And before you say that these are mostly minor issues caused by societal pressure and therefore don’t count, almost all the current issues for women are minor and caused by society as well (In the US, of course). There’s the wage gap from women choosing lower paying jobs, the “not being allowed to legally murder a baby 5 minutes before they’re born unless it’s an emergency” thing, having people look at them if they choose to walk outside naked, but then complaining about people over-sexualizing women in video games by making them choose to walk outside naked… Women aren’t suffering in this country.


See? You can't come up with an answer. So don't go and say that men are judged unfairly. Men are given everything simply because they are men.

As a woman, I'm sorry, but this ticked me off and I'm really hoping you aren't serious… Men aren't given everything simply because they are men. A lot of the things they're given come from their own hard work and efforts that most women typically don't achieve, not just their biological sex.

When I say both sexes have their own problems, I mean it. It doesn't matter if women have things worse, that doesn't instantly mean that men are just handed everything without question and live perfect lives. To say otherwise is, in my opinion, quite sexist.

Deleted user

So you're going to say that White Males suffer the same amount of oppression and racism as Hispanics or African Americans?

REALLY

You really have to stop bringing this up as literally no one is arguing this. It's just that it exists. Also it is growing as time goes by. Also wouldn't big things start small? No it's not as bad as probably every other group ever. But just because it's a minority does not mean it should be instantly dismissed.

I wasn't the one bringing it up and since this is my chat I can moderate however I want and talk about what ever I want. It was a topic of debate that was being argued before.
Racism towards the white community does not exist. You cannot say that it is real without offering up proof. A white man/woman will never be turned away from a restaurant. They will never be shot down in cold blood while worshiping. There will never be manifestos written about how their race is dirty and unworthy of life. Their children will not be placed in concentration camps and ripped from the arms of their families. Their race will never be breeded out.
'White Racism is a minority' is bullshit. White people will always play the victim card when the people they oppress stand up for themselves. White Racism is when people of color finally say enough and start to defend themselves by speaking out to show the world the true injustice.

Deleted user

Ella you are seriously the most sheltered person I have ever encountered. I'm not going to respond to anything you said because it is so ridiculously sexist that it is laughable and actually proved my point in a way. Not to mention that if I do respond I always get labeled the bad guy.

So feel proud of yourself or whatever, and when you finally leave your house and enter the real world, you will understand that nothing of what you claim to argue for is actually the truth.

@The-N-U-T-Cracker

Ella you are seriously the most sheltered person I have ever encountered.

Oh boy, you do not want to meet my homeschool group

I'm not going to respond to anything you said because it is so ridiculously sexist that it is laughable and actually proved my point in a way.

…You complain about me not knowing anything about the real world, but then refuse to tell me where I'm wrong?

Not to mention that if I do respond I always get labeled the bad guy.

When has anyone, ever, in the history of anything, labeled you as the bad guy? I've seen Dom get called an a-hat, I've been referred to repeatedly as an absolute idiot, yet you seem to be viewed as the all-knowing goddess who everyone respects and wishes to be like.

Deleted user

Oh boy, you do not want to meet my homeschool group

You're right I don't want to meet any of you

…You complain about me not knowing anything about the real world, but then refuse to tell me where I'm wrong?

I'm not complaining. I don't complain. I'm stating. Besides, what's the point of trying to educate you anymore? You say you want to learn, but only sit around telling everyone how they are wrong by giving out your narrow views. I've told you multiple times before to actually listen to what people have to say but you refuse to open your mind to other possibilities than what mommy and daddy tell you or whatever pops up on the first page of google.

When has anyone, ever, in the history of anything, labeled you as the bad guy? I've seen Dom get called an a-hat, I've been referred to repeatedly as an absolute idiot, yet you seem to be viewed as the all-knowing goddess who everyone respects and wishes to be like.

Trust. I've been chewed out a TON for being the harsh, brutal person that I am by a lot of people because of the things I say in front of 'children'. You chose to comment and follow this post, I'm not about to censor myself over things that are happening in the real world.


I'm over it at this point because you guys don't even understand how you are oppressing yourselves.
It pisses me off and makes me upset so……yea.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

"Besides, what's the point of trying to educate you anymore? You say you want to learn, but only sit around telling everyone how they are wrong by giving out your narrow views. I've told you multiple times before to actually listen to what people have to say but you refuse to open your mind to other possibilities than what mommy and daddy tell you or whatever pops up on the first page of google."

Well we told her to get educated before she entered the debates and she tried. And it is not inherently because of narrow mindedness that she has not changed her views that much. Neither have you. “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

@Moxie group

I think some of the things you're saying are a bit true, but I think you're missing the point/ just don't know about certain topics, which isn't your fault.

1: Despite the fact that women are more likely to end up with depression, male suicide rates are far higher than female, and no one ever talks about it.

I'm pretty sure this is fair.

2: They're expected to work harder and longer on more stressful/dangerous careers.

Not . . . exactly. Sure the rules of 1950's misogyny state that men are supposed to provide for the family and women are supposed to stay home and cook and clean and care for the children, but that's not the way it is anymore. Or maybe it is where you live. We do live in different states and the difference in culture in America is shocking. Anyways, even if men are pushed to have a career, the careers they are typically pushed to are more white collar, office type of jobs.

Believe me, I understand the stress of a father's job when he is working to provide for his family. My dad is a first responder and I've seen it affect him both mentally and physically. But he chose this. He was hardly pushed into any type of job and it was always something less hands-on then what he currently does.

I think you have a pretty good understanding of the difficulties of your father's job, but I don't know if you fully understand how hard it is for your mother. And maybe you realize how hard it is for her, but maybe not for most mothers. Mother's don't get paid, most have to go through an extremely difficult and body-ruining process to become a mother (or they have to go through the really really difficult adoption process) to children who are definitely going to be rude to her and are definitely going to hurt her (whether intentionally or unintentionally) at one point at the very very least.

Plus cleaning and cooking and raising children are no easy feats, and I think that you should acknowledge more how hard being a mother is.

Also, I'm sorry to tell you this, and you may disagree, but your mother not pushing you into something other than art because you'll marry a man who will provide for you is sexist (because the notion of a woman not having to worry about a career is sexist) and belittling your art. By telling you that you don't need to worry about it because you'll marry a man, it doesn't really sound to me like she believes in your career as an artist.

3: They're often stereotyped as violent, heartless, and/or complete perverts.

I think . . . that men are often stereotyped as violent, heartless, and/or complete perverts is true because statistically, they are. But I don't think that's the point you're making, I think the point you're making is that violence against men goes overlooked. Which I think I agree with. And the point about how men are expected to want sex. But yeah, I think you may have wanted to title this point differently because the current point you're advertising is correct.

See? You can't come up with an answer. So don't go and say that men are judged unfairly. Men are given everything simply because they are men.

As a woman, I'm sorry, but this ticked me off and I'm really hoping you aren't serious… Men aren't given everything simply because they are men. A lot of the things they're given come from their own hard work and efforts that most women typically don't achieve, not just their biological sex.

When I say both sexes have their own problems, I mean it. It doesn't matter if women have things worse, that doesn't instantly mean that men are just handed everything without question and live perfect lives. To say otherwise is, in my opinion, quite sexist.

I think you're overlooking the privileges that men have over women, which I think was Eris's argument. Men get a higher salary, they are more likely to be hired for a job over women, and those are just two examples I could think of off the top of my head.

As I said, I think you made some good points, but I also think you're either overlooking some things, or you just don't know.

Deleted user

"Besides, what's the point of trying to educate you anymore? You say you want to learn, but only sit around telling everyone how they are wrong by giving out your narrow views. I've told you multiple times before to actually listen to what people have to say but you refuse to open your mind to other possibilities than what mommy and daddy tell you or whatever pops up on the first page of google."

Well we told her to get educated before she entered the debates and she tried. And it is not inherently because of narrow mindedness that she has not changed her views that much. Neither have you. “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

Have I not entertained everyone's thoughts here? The point of this thread is to do so.
My views have gone through drastic changes over the years and as I have gone through my life. I am set in my views because I have learned and have been taught/taught myself. My views are a culmination of who I am as a person, not what my parents/family/school/internet/media tell me to think. Don't belittle the fact that I have held strong to my views and not turned wishywashy to appease people for arguments sake.
She said she wanted to learn and yet in truth she really didn't and that's okay. Just a little disappointing.

Deleted user

"Men get a higher salary" Nah. I'm supposed to be writing a paper that's due tomorrow morning about it right now.

Women make 70 cents to a man's dollar. That's kind of a fact. The wage gap is real. Why do you think it is such a hot topic in congress?

@BrennaKadavsky

Silently applauds Ella because sheltered people stick together and those have been some excellent arguments in my humble opinion

I really want to add my own views, but I have to go to bed because it's my bedtime.
And honestly, maybe telling men that everything they're earning is only given to them because of their gender is a kind of discrimination. It's telling them that nothing they're personally good at matters, because the world only gives them privileges because of their gender, not talent.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

"Men get a higher salary" Nah. I'm supposed to be writing a paper that's due tomorrow morning about it right now.

Women make 70 cents to a man's dollar. That's kind of a fact. The wage gap is real. Why do you think it is such a hot topic in congress?

Have you heard the common arguments against that yet?

@Moxie group

And honestly, maybe telling men that everything they're earning is only given to them because of their gender is a kind of discrimination. It's telling them that nothing they're personally good at matters, because the world only gives them privileges because of their gender, not talent.

Well I mean it’s true. I’m not trying to be hurtful. It’s just facts. If anything it’s more hurtful towards women because it doesn’t matter whether we’re better or equal than men at our jobs, we’ll always be paid less. Just something to think about