forum Debate. Debate. Debate.

Started March 14, 2019 by Deleted user

tune

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imagine, in court, being able to say you killed a man out of fear of him making a move on you, a man, and the judge just lets that happen

it's also used to like. get you off the hook when you go out of your way to trick a gay person and kill them, and then say they came on to you and you panicked. That's premeditated murder and perjury, sir, and you're getting off with a sentence as if it was self defense

don't you love that you can literally just make shit up in court

I know this is an older thread so I hope I’m not reviving something that people would be bothered by but I was scrolling through and I had a topic in mind. It’s political, and something that concerns me, my family, the place that we live in, etc. Anyone and everyone living here.

For backstory, I lived in Ukraine, up until 2014 when an annexation of the territory that I live in took place. Since then, it’s been registered as a federal subject of the Russian Federation. However, Ukraine still considers the area to be apart of Ukraine. This has caused a lot of conflict, still ongoing, both externally and internally for a lot of people.

So my question is. Should Crimea, the place I have been talking about, be apart of Ukraine, or Russia? Or possibly another solution is possible?

Uhhhuhhh as an American? I say it should be put to a vote by the people in Crimea about where they wanna be? But. Idk

Well, I think it should be put up to vote by the people…just like @Icefire said. I feel like that's a solution that might cause fewer conflicts…but I could be wrong.

That does make sense, though there was a referendum (a vote for the people of Crimea) to decide if the population agreed with being apart of the Russian Federation. And if I recall correctly, 96.77% voted to join the Russian Federation.

I should mention though the referendum is considered illegitimate by many countries in the world, such as most of the members of the European Union, The United States and Canada. Also specifically Ukraine who Crimea originally was apart of was also strongly against it.

Also, even though you see the percentage to be very high, there are groups of people, particularly the heritage that I come from that is very hostile to the idea of being apart of Russia. Particularly Russians, though I personally don’t have much against the people, more so the government though.

Also I will mention there still is an ongoing war here. More skirmishes than huge battles, but I don’t believe any official end-date has been considered.

https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/conflict-ukraine

It’s a stalemate right now.

I certainly don’t mind a revival.
Honestly, as much as I take issue with democracy at times, 96% is incredible. The vote seems to speak rather favorably of the Russia thing. But Idk. Not living there or being familiar with the politics I could easily be wrong.

i think one of the big issues in general, is that even though the majority vote russia, the minority that doesnt seem to be violently opposed. if im understanding that right. which in turn is pretty much how you end up with some sort of civil war, and even though i hate war, that might literally be the only way to solve anything since it already seems to be the only solution in anyone's mind

Then I am not apart of the majority on that vote, nor is my family and plenty of others I know. Also, the Mejlis (the highest representative body of the Crimean Tatars) were considered ‘extremist’ in Russia, and banned. Thus also Crimea. But they still are active in Ukraine. As a Tatar, this does affect me as does the rest of my family.

Crimean Tatars made up around 12% of the population but a lot of them fled the area when Crimea was annexed. There have been reported occurrences of those who remained of harassment received (to the Tatars) or even disappearances. And it’s not just verbal harassment either. Tatars face police raids on their homes and mosques, beatings, interrogations and more.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/what-the-banning-of-crimean-tatars-mejlis-means/

Even if the majority did vote to join the Russian Federation at the time, it still cannot be denied that there are brutalities taking place against citizens in Crimea.

even though i hate war, that might literally be the only way to solve anything since it already seems to be the only solution in anyone's mind

As someone who also hates war, I do have to somewhat agree.

like i really don't like war, but with the way this situation seems to have panned out–and with the state of the world in general–i dont think we're at a point in society and shit to give up war as a solution to problems like this.

I don’t like war. I don’t support war. When things get too bad for me in the US I’ma move out and that’s how I’ll solve it.

That’s not a viable solution for me, to flee Crimea. My family doesn’t have the resources or money to leave. Also, even if we had them right now with the pandemic it’s not safe. I’m fortunate enough to be located in one of the less conflict heavy areas, but I still face worries as both a Tatar and a member of the LBGTQ+ community. The latter I’d still most likely face discrimination unfortunately if Crimea wasn’t occupied by Russia, so I put most of my focus on the former.

I also don’t really want to leave. Yes I want to avoid conflict if possible but at the same time, Crimea for me has been my home. My family even before me had lived in Crimea for a long time, our ancestors have all lived there for the most part going back a century or so.
In a way, I think I’m still being optimistic but I don’t want to flee, I still want to do things to oppose the annexation even if it’s not much.

Yeah idk mate. I mean. I sympathize. But mostly we have heated moral or political musings. Not like. Solving international conflict. We’re pretty bad at that. Or at least severely inexperienced.

Well,
It's tough, because in the end there is a part of your population that doesn't want to join Russia, It's not the majority that wins, it's the side with the Money and the loudest voice. It's whomever holds the most influence and that is not always the majority. In America we are not controlled by majority, we are controlled by the wealthy, and those with social power, that's how our country has worked sense it's creation.
It's pretty similar in a lot of countries these days because of unchecked colonialism. I mean The Berlin Conference was a thing, it caused a lot of issues. But you can't just fix all of the issues Colonialism made by removing the forces that invaded the space. It's been to long for that, Again look what happened after WWI and WWII to colonies and countries that European powers just up and abandoned.
Sorry lots of history here, but my point is, Once countries begin to mingle, it is impossible to separate or fully converge with out conflict. I don't support mindless war, but it is not the only type of war. There is going to be a portion of the population who aren't going to let go of the way their country was with out a fight, and there are going to be people to oppose them. I can't tell them that it's wrong to want to defend your beliefs or political standings or your country, what ever you believe your country to be. Unless people are willing to change their minds and compromise war is going to happen, someone has to back down, or someone has to start talking compromises.

All the folks who don’t like it should move in together and petition to make a small portion their own land maybe.

Also. Debate topic. Is it wrong to be a beggar on purpose? I don’t mean the average one, but the guys that would rather beg than look for work.

The people who do that do it because they make more money sitting on the street than working a job because 1. Applying or jobs is expensive when you don't have anything and 2. Minimum wage is really low and that speaks volumes more about the government than it does the person. So yes but no? No but yes? In conclusion, the government sucks and the idea that people who don't work are lazy is a capitalist lie made up by corporations so they can keep exploiting labor and homeless and jobless people deserve empathy, understanding, and systemic change to actually help them because the middle class is far closer to them than they are the people who have been fucking over everyone else since capitalism began

The people who do that do it because they make more money sitting on the street than working a job because

True.

1. Applying or jobs is expensive when you don't have anything and

Nah. It’s pretty easy actually. Just kind of time consuming. Except with C19 libraries are shut down so… that can make things more difficult. But most people still have paper ones.

1. Minimum wage is really low and that speaks volumes more about the government than it does the person.

I may not be an economics major, but… Idk why is the min wage raise = poorer world thing wrong?

So yes but no? No but yes?

Well yes, but actually no.

In conclusion, the government sucks

U right.

and the idea that people who don't work are lazy is a capitalist lie made up by corporations so they can keep exploiting labor

Explain more of this. Bc obviously we need labor or world go kaput. Also we’ll die if we don’t work.

and homeless and jobless people deserve empathy, understanding, and systemic change to actually help them

U Right

because the middle class is far closer to them than they are the people who have been fucking over everyone else since capitalism began

Yeah.

just because something is easy for you doesn't mean it is for other people. people without regular transport and people with disabilities have a harder time getting jobs and keeping jobs, and if you're losing jobs too often because your employers didn't want to accommodate your disabilities, then its hard to find places willing to hire you with a paper record that doesn't explain what's up.

i think in general its a super grey area and depends on the person's situation and economic status to even get close to determining whether or not its okay.

like okay, for example. not begging exactly, but you know that like five percent statistic of people who abuse food stamps and government financial aid? my ex's family are like that. they are lazy, though, and i know that for a fact. my mom was telling me, once, about how my ex's mom had told her that those gift giving organizations(you know, for low income families around christmas) 'dont check with each other on who signed up, so you can sign up for like twelve different ones and theyll never know'. mind you, they would do this for each kid, on top of buying each kid like nearly a grand's worth of presents. so they were taking these free gifts that could have gone to some kid who's parents couldn't afford more than a couple dollar store items, and giving them to their kids who they had already bought a bunch of gifts for. highlighting the fact that they didn't need them.

they had financial aid and did this for christmas presents, while also spending at least a couple thousand on decorations for every holiday and like 5'000 in fireworks. thats what they spent on fireworks this last fourth of july. they buy those giant 500 dollar inflatable decorations to put up around their homes(their house, grandmother's house, and around the trailer park they *run). for halloween, christmas, easter, everything. and they get new stuff every single year, and spend loads on other insanely unnecessary things.

mind you, i'm the kind of person who tells people to mind their business when they complain about someone poor buying a nice new tv, because you cant police other's spending and also poor people deserve nice things when they can afford them, shockingly.

but i can say, without a doubt, that this family is not poor. at all. they are far from struggling, and they don't care about the fact that they're literally the reason so many people complain about how financial aid and food stamps are 'just for lazy people'.

on top of that, those are resources that could be going elsewhere, to people who need them. tbh i find that abhorrent.

however, they're like, again a 5% statistic if im remembering the number right. maybe work is easier to find, but is it as easy to keep for some people? maybe its easier for them to 'beg', maybe 'begging' is just a temporary solution when they could, technically, work. maybe you dont know enough about someone's situation to make that judgement call and its a case to case basis thing anyway.

if that makes any sense

minimum wage/the average yearly income hasn't changed enough to keep up with the rapidly rising cost of living, if that answers your question for pickle. i cant remember the numbers, but for example: average income has barely raised since like the '70s, but the cost of a loaf of bread in the same time has tripled

There are so many factors that go into ability to work, like disability, mental illness, base resources, etc, that are hard to account for.
I used to volunteer at a resource center for homeless people, and one of their things was that they help provide technology and other resources to assist with job applications. Which honestly? That's not an easy process for everybody, especially if you've hit rock bottom.
Not to mention after several months of unsuccessfully looking for work, one might just give up. And maybe they have better luck begging than working their ass off for minimum wage.
People living off disability checks also is an incredibly complicated situation to be in, and they may be financially better off on those checks than getting a job that pays just a little too much for them to get any more benefits.
Now, people who have more than enough money and choose to mooch off others, fuck em, but just because some people abuse programs doesn't mean we should look at people with more scrutiny because that could cut off some people who really need it.
Also an example of that capitalist lie is the welfare queen, which is a (usually black) single woman who has a bunch of kids, doesn't work, and lives solely off government money and doesn't do shit. This has really strong origins in racist stereotypes, and honestly? A lot of anti-poor stereotypes are also racist.
Way I look at it,most people have a reason for some amount of exploiting the system. And the few that don't? Not great, but we can afford to look the other way to help those who actually need it desperately.

Nah. It’s pretty easy actually. Just kind of time consuming. Except with C19 libraries are shut down so… that can make things more difficult. But most people still have paper ones.

You need: clean clothes, a bathroom and soap and stuff to make sure you're presentable and don't smell, a phone and a phone plan so you have service, a computer, wifi access, a printer, enough money to be able to go into job interviews and still be able to eat, and reliable transportation. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it that you don't really think about when you have easy access to all of it
And idk where you applied to but I've never inquired about a place where they didn't say "apply online" and give me a condescending look

I may not be an economics major, but… Idk why is the min wage raise = poorer world thing wrong?

Why…would it be right? You realize that the people own stuff like Amazon and Walmart are billionaires? The only reason they don't want to raise minimum wage is it's like maybe a million dollars or so less for them to leech out of their workers. Or, prices for stuff get raised a couple cents, maybe a dollar. You can't raise them more than that because companies compete to have the lowest prices
The only reason minimum wage isn't livable is because of billionaires who want to exploit their workers for every last cent. And conservatives refuse to educate themselves, listen to experts, or think cognitively for two minutes
Also you can feed and house over 3,000 families of four for a billion dollars so that's fun. There's absolutely no reason for homeless people to exist

compromise war is going to happen, someone has to back down, or someone has to start talking compromises.

It’s technically already happened with the war. I do wish that there was a compromise for this situation, but with how things are going so far I don’t see much of a peaceful solution to this.
You can never appease to everyone with the same tree (or however the saying goes.) and as you said in the end there will be a portion that doesn’t want to join with Russia. I can say for sure unless something miracle shows up I probably won’t leave this minority.

All the folks who don’t like it should move in together and petition to make a small portion their own land maybe.

As much as I appreciate this it is a bit more difficult than that, but I did see the mention of none of you being (no offense, but in general, not just this site; people don’t tend to be good at solving international conflict, even in reality) experts on any of these topics so I’ll drop it for now seeing as we’ve moved onto a new topic.

minimum wage/the average yearly income hasn't changed enough to keep up with the rapidly rising cost of living, if that answers your question for pickle. i cant remember the numbers, but for example: average income has barely raised since like the '70s, but the cost of a loaf of bread in the same time has tripled

I suppose I’ll have to give this more thought. If y’all aren’t making me a ~Radical Leftist~.

A lot of anti-poor stereotypes are also racist.

I’m sure you’re right, Bec.

You need: clean clothes, a bathroom and soap and stuff to make sure you're presentable and don't smell, a phone and a phone plan so you have service, a computer, wifi access, a printer, enough money to be able to go into job interviews and still be able to eat, and reliable transportation. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it that you don't really think about when you have easy access to all of it

I stand corrected. Though I can imagine a couple ways out of some of those.

pickle is right. i went to like ten different businesses to ask about how to apply and only one gave me an actual paper application. and lmao yeah, they act like you're stupid for coming in in person. only one was nice about telling me it was online, the rest were like 'we only do that online' with that weird look

^^^same actually.
Honestly, I only have my current job because my boss already knew me from another professional setting. Trying to get a minimum wage summer job was damn near impossible. Adults in my family kept telling me to call or visit in person, but the employers always got irritated.

‘Parently I’m just lucky ig.

I’ve been seeing this debate a lot recently in light of the Sia/Autism Speaks situation, so I figured I’d pop it here

Should neurotypical people write neurodivergent main/reoccurring characters?
if so should they at least have a co-writer with the disability, or do you think proper research can be enough?

as someone neurodivergent but not autistic, i can only speak for my own things, but yeah. I think its great, actually. but only if you properly research and definitely get help and info straight from people with the disabilities you're writing. also sia's shit goes so far beyond that.

but on her thing, it doesn't matter what her actual intentions were. D'Angelo Wallace put it really well, but what matters was the obvious after effect it had, and what the effect the final product had.

but yeah overall I believe as long as you are properly sourcing your research, not trying to speak for disabled people, and being careful, everyone should write more neurodivergent character because everyone deserves to see themselves in characters.