forum Debate. Debate. Debate.

Started March 14, 2019 by Deleted user

tune

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Honestly, I would hate to be immortal. And overpopulation would become a problem incredibly quickly.

Because there is killing. Though I think death is evil. In a perfect world we would be immortal.

Okay, you did mean it like this… In this case I wholeheartedly agree with the other members of this chat. Religious values or not, death is a natural part of life and until proven otherwise, completely unavoidable. If we take religious values into account, then the thing that people are basically looking forward too in some way for a lot of faiths including Christianity is some form of salvation from worldly suffering and the punishments associated with not being in their god's graces. To be immortal would result in never receiving that salvation, which would be a punishment. If you mean the immortality of the immortal soul, then you still need to die at some point if just your soul is to live on whether in a heavenly plain or not. Even I as someone who has Atheistic views of the afterlife so far would find death a punishment. Do I fear death? Of course I do, death is a subject that terrifies most people subconcsiously whether you believe in an afterlife or not. However, I would never ask to live forever, because by doing that, I have doomed myself to be in a position where if I ever love someone, whether platonically, romantically or as a family member, I will lose them eventually to time and have to continue without them

Forever

Afterlife or not, as SlytherinnyJenny said

"… living on earth forever would be more of a hell than a heaven."

First let me thank you for your wall of text.
Well Christians do too believe in the inevitability of death as we have no good evidence to contradict. Salvation from the worlds sufferings? To an extent. But it’s only the new guys that promise rainbows and puppies to those that follow God and forget that the symbol of our faith is a gory torture device. Many of God’s best servants died horrific deaths. It’s a new thing that bad things happen to you when you’re not right with God.
So, the end goal is to do good in this world and be allowed into the next one which will be perfection, immortality included.

Because there is killing. Though I think death is evil. In a perfect world we would be immortal.

Okay, you did mean it like this… In this case I wholeheartedly agree with the other members of this chat. Religious values or not, death is a natural part of life and until proven otherwise, completely unavoidable. If we take religious values into account, then the thing that people are basically looking forward too in some way for a lot of faiths including Christianity is some form of salvation from worldly suffering and the punishments associated with not being in their god's graces. To be immortal would result in never receiving that salvation, which would be a punishment. If you mean the immortality of the immortal soul, then you still need to die at some point if just your soul is to live on whether in a heavenly plain or not. Even I as someone who has Atheistic views of the afterlife so far would find death a punishment. Do I fear death? Of course I do, death is a subject that terrifies most people subconcsiously whether you believe in an afterlife or not. However, I would never ask to live forever, because by doing that, I have doomed myself to be in a position where if I ever love someone, whether platonically, romantically or as a family member, I will lose them eventually to time and have to continue without them

Forever

Afterlife or not, as SlytherinnyJenny said

"… living on earth forever would be more of a hell than a heaven."

First let me thank you for your wall of text.
Well Christians do too believe in the inevitability of death as we have no good evidence to contradict. Salvation from the worlds sufferings? To an extent. But it’s only the new guys that promise rainbows and puppies to those that follow God and forget that the symbol of our faith is a gory torture device. Many of God’s best servants died horrific deaths. It’s a new thing that bad things happen to you when you’re not right with God.
So, the end goal is to do good in this world and be allowed into the next one which will be perfection, immortality included.

So what you are referencing is the immortality of the human soul rather than the human body?

Yeah, death's not evil. And imo, the end goal of life is to die because living on earth forever would be more of a hell than a heaven. As a Christian, my end goal is to die and get to heaven after living a productive and successful life

Yo Jyn. That is some newfangled theology that the Catholic (Do you still identify as?) church does not accept. Read Revelations. New heaven and new earth and all that. And it would only be hell if it was earth as it is now. If it was a new and perfect earth, then living here *there would literally be heaven as the whole point is to perfect the mortal world and make it one once more with the spiritual world.

Yeah, I'm Catholic, and by heaven I just meant whatever comes next, be it heaven or new earth or most likely purgatory. I believe in making the most of the time I have and helping others so I can 'level up' as it were, to heaven eventually.

I would say I'm not scared of death, but of how I'll die, since I assume it won't be super peaceful and all. Immense pain scares me more than death itself because death's just the next step towards the next life, this one eternal.

So what you are referencing is the immortality of the human soul rather than the human body?

No. Sort of. In my religion the matter matters as well. So even if the bodies we have now crumble, we will have bodies in the afterlife.

I would say I'm not scared of death, but of how I'll die, since I assume it won't be super peaceful and all. Immense pain scares me more than death itself because death's just the next step towards the next life, this one eternal.

I feel.

I'm absolutely terrified of death because I have absolutely no faith in myself nor do I see myself as worthy of an eternity in heaven, but that's just me

So what you are referencing is the immortality of the human soul rather than the human body?

No. Sort of. In my religion the matter matters as well. So even if the bodies we have now crumble, we will have bodies in the afterlife.

Okay, well anyway, on the subject prior, is it the death in war or the fact that the deaths are vi the person being killed you find evil?

“vi”?
But it’s because I think death is terrible. As have most of you I am sure, I have had my share of death. It really sucks. It’s horrible waking up in the morning to find out that someone you love is unavailable for the rest of your life.

“vi”?
But it’s because I think death is terrible. As have most of you I am sure, I have had my share of death. It really sucks. It’s horrible waking up in the morning to find out that someone you love is unavailable for the rest of your life.

"via", my bad.

Okay, again, that is something I can understand. It's just when you said:

"Because there is killing. Though I think death is evil. In a perfect world we would be immortal."

I thought you meant that all death is something that should never happen and if it does, it is an "evil" thing.

But yeah. War is evil because killing people is evil.

So I have an inciting post from Pinterest!

Have fun peeps.

But yeah. War is evil because killing people is evil.

Okay, that's what I was asking, but let me ask. Is this a conditional thing for you? Would you kill and view it as not "evil" if say… A robber was about to shoot you and/or a family member but you kill robber in self defense? Is that still evil or is self defense an exception?

Also, I don't know about all of you, but I found that pin a bit inspiring.

A little random but a question for Dom…
Are you viewing 'death' as evil, or losing life? Because death is another door, but stepping through requires one to leave the current room, life.

But yeah. War is evil because killing people is evil.

Okay, that's what I was asking, but let me ask. Is this a conditional thing for you? Would you kill and view it as not "evil" if say… A robber was about to shoot you and/or a family member but you kill robber in self defense? Is that still evil or is self defense an exception?

It’s still evil. But an allowable and justified evil.

A little random but a question for Dom…
Are you viewing 'death' as evil, or losing life? Because death is another door, but stepping through requires one to leave the current room, life.

What isn’t the difference between death and the losing of life? Is there any difference between cold and the absence of heat?

Also, I don't know about all of you, but I found that pin a bit inspiring.

Glad you thought of it so. I personally think it is very important to know what love truly is. If it is just a feeling, all relationships are doomed. If not… it might destroy the romantic hopes of some, but it also gives truth to use as a tool to better ourselves.
Also the part about arranged marriages made me happy. They are pretty much only seen as this terrible thing, when in reality I think for the most part they are a good idea. Glad to see my culture put in a more understanding light.

I don't know if it's just my weird brain doing the logic thing, but I don't feel grief a ton. Maybe it's just because I believe that when I die I will see them again, but idk.
Again, my brain is just weird like that in general so shrug.

Immortality would be facinating, I would think. Most people say that it would be 'boring' (most vampire characters are so conflicted about it. ugh) But I think it would be the exact opposite. The world is constantly changing, just look how much society has changed just within the past 30 years. To see thew world change and to be a living piece of history is a dream.

I don't yearn for the afterlife as most do, so immortality I would take with open arms.

Mmmkay I've seen some responses that have me curious:

What is 'evil'?

There you go asking the big questions.
Evil is the opposite or anything that goes against objective Good.

Immortality would be facinating, I would think. Most people say that it would be 'boring' (most vampire characters are so conflicted about it. ugh) But I think it would be the exact opposite. The world is constantly changing, just look how much society has changed just within the past 30 years. To see thew world change and to be a living piece of history is a dream.

I don't yearn for the afterlife as most do, so immortality I would take with open arms.

Well it would really suck having everyone you love die on you. An it would be kind of awesome. But life does kind of suck. (Though I still believe in hope and the value of life.) There is so much wrong in the world it can be exhausting.

Everyone I love can literally die on me now. I can/could outlive all of them. What is the difference?
It's not like we do not go through life and create new relationships therefore finding new people to love.

True. But it is inevitable that (if you were immortal) everyone you love would die before you and all relationships would be like nothing as they disappeared in the winds of time. I would find that hard to bear.

Immortality could definitely be fun and intriguing for… say, 30 years. But everything has to come to an end - we cherish moments in life because they are limited. Life would get boring, since every experience and interaction could be repeated on an endless loop. Falling in love, creating friendships, laughter, pain. I imagine after awhile, these interactions would blur past.

Everyone I love can literally die on me now. I can/could outlive all of them. What is the difference?

Yes, you could outlive your friends, family. But it would hurt. You would have to live with that pain for the rest of your immortal life. And you would go through that pain over and over. Every time you meet someone, form bonds, you realize those will have to break. You almost have a timer ticking down for that person.
And on a slightly different note, there is a uniqueness in dying. In knowing that you will never know the future, but merely that you have impacted it. Do you crave immortality for your curiosity? Or because you fear death?

Do you crave immortality for your curiosity? Or because you fear death?

This sounds like a legendary Tumblr quote.

Immortality could definitely be fun and intriguing for… say, 30 years. But everything has to come to an end - we cherish moments in life because they are limited. Life would get boring, since every experience and interaction could be repeated on an endless loop. Falling in love, creating friendships, laughter, pain. I imagine after awhile, these interactions would blur past.

But the thing is…I don't think this way. I don't cherish things because they are finite. How long something exists doesn't determine it's worth. (By that logic plastic would be insanely valuable) I cherish things because they are. Simply because they have been in my life. I still cherish the stuffed animal I had as a child even though it is gone.

You're describing life as it is right now though? It is an endless cycle of work, love, sleep, eat, pray, friends, pain, etc. So what's the difference? Things do not/should not loose impact because it becomes routine. I would still be able to love someone as intensely as I do now, in a hundred, two hundred years. Because not everyone is the same, not everything is the same. The world around will change forever and be new, so will the people. Looking at that ans seeing it as boring is not a problem of immortality, it is a problem of the immortal willingly giving up. Whining about how awful it is to experience all different cultures and times, just like all those 'emo vampire boys'.

Everyone I love can literally die on me now. I can/could outlive all of them. What is the difference?

Yes, you could outlive your friends, family. But it would hurt. You would have to live with that pain for the rest of your immortal life. And you would go through that pain over and over. Every time you meet someone, form bonds, you realize those will have to break. You almost have a timer ticking down for that person.

Again. It's already like that. I already miss my grandfather and he's been gone 15 years. This is nothing new. What is 1015 years compared to that? Pain doesn't increase as time goes on. Proven to be the exact opposite as people heal and come to terms with death of loved ones/etc. People that think in the way that you are describing are willingly wallowing in self pity because they didn't die, because they get to experience an insane amount of new things and such instead of living for those they have lost. Or just moving forward in their own life. They are stuck on the moment they lost death, and that is just insane.

And on a slightly different note, there is a uniqueness in dying. In knowing that you will never know the future, but merely that you have impacted it. Do you crave immortality for your curiosity? Or because you fear death?

Lol. I already said that I don't fear death. I'm curious and want to experience this world to its full potential.

This got kind of deep. I approve.